SCOTUS and whatnot

[romad1]

10 minutes ago, pfife said:

make lemons out of lemonade

I am struggling to actually sense-make out of this.  Are the babies lemons?  Is the lemonade the sperm?

[Tigeraholic1]

So technically repeal of RVW should be the best thing that ever happened to Dems am I right? Like you guys say the minority of the country agrees with the repeal and the majority is against it right? If that is the case there should be a GIANT blue wave and every Republican who agrees (Outside of dark red states) will be voted out of major offices. 

[Motown Bombers]

I make omelets out of chicken fetuses. 

Edited May 6, 2022 by Motown Bombers

[Archie]

After looking more into this and getting past the democrats vote pandering rhetoric, there could be little change. Instead of a federal law this will be going to the states to  decide.  All this crap about going  after others for gay or interracial marriage etc. is just stupidand fear mongering over nothing.  States will, as they should, decide the laws for that state.  All of you in Michigan have nothing to worry about because Whitless has pledged her support take do away with the unborn in mass.

[romad1]

8 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

So technically repeal of RVW should be the best thing that ever happened to Dems am I right? Like you guys say the minority of the country agrees with the repeal and the majority is against it right? If that is the case there should be a GIANT blue wave and every Republican who agrees (Outside of dark red states) will be voted out of major offices. 

That would be like saying "The holocaust was the best thing that happened to the Jews because of all the excellent books the survivors wrote"

[gehringer_2]

19 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

So technically repeal of RVW should be the best thing that ever happened to Dems am I right? Like you guys say the minority of the country agrees with the repeal and the majority is against it right? If that is the case there should be a GIANT blue wave and every Republican who agrees (Outside of dark red states) will be voted out of major offices. 

yes and no. There is a lot more energy around the Evangelical anti-abortion position as that carries the tone of a religious crusade. OTOH, for the majority of status quo supporters it isn't that big an issue.  I don't think it will energize the middle toward the left as much as it lets air out of the balloon on the right. Everyone with a pulse knew this would be the ultimate outcome if they sat on their butts after Obama, but it wasn't enough to drive enough of a wave of turnout other than in '18. But the right side grievance generating machine is pretty well oiled today and it may chug merrily along even without one of it's biggest single issues.

Edited May 6, 2022 by gehringer_2

[gehringer_2]

11 minutes ago, Archie said:

After looking more into this and getting past the democrats vote pandering rhetoric, there could be little change. Instead of a federal law this will be going to the states to  decide.  All this crap about going  after others for gay or interracial marriage etc. is just stupidand fear mongering over nothing.  States will, as they should, decide the laws for that state.  All of you in Michigan have nothing to worry about because Whitless has pledged her support take do away with the unborn in mass.

Au Contraire mon ami. MI has an anti-abortion law on the books from before Roe and no hope of getting its repeal through the current GOP legislature.

[Motown Bombers]

I don't know that the center left was ever worried that Roe would actually be overturned. It was settled law and the left was just overreacting. 

[Archie]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

Au Contraire mon ami. MI has an anti-abortion law on the books from before Roe and no hope of getting its repeal through the current GOP legislature.

Yes, as I said, Whitless supports mass abortion.  Nothing wll change until we get rid of her.

[pfife]

14 minutes ago, Archie said:

After looking more into this and getting past the democrats vote pandering rhetoric, there could be little change. Instead of a federal law this will be going to the states to  decide.  All this crap about going  after others for gay or interracial marriage etc. is just stupidand fear mongering over nothing.  States will, as they should, decide the laws for that state.  All of you in Michigan have nothing to worry about because Whitless has pledged her support take do away with the unborn in mass.

Did your research involve reading the opinion?   Or even doing a find on a pdf of the opinion?  Obergefell and Loving were both specifically raised in the opinion itself which wasn't written by democrats trying to fear monger, it was written by Alito and will soon be law of the land apparently.   Nice try though.  

[gehringer_2]

Just now, Motown Bombers said:

I don't know that the center left was ever worried that Roe would actually be overturned. It was settled law and the left was just overreacting. 

possibly, but are the people who are that detached going to be bothered one way or the other? Seriously, for as much heat as it generates, it's not a issue that directly impacts the life of very many people who probably care more about whether their garbage gets picked up on Thursday or Tuesday.

[pfife]

3 minutes ago, Archie said:

Yes, as I said, Whitless supports mass abortion.  Nothing wll change until we get rid of her.

irony

[Motown Bombers]

2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

possibly, but are the people who are that detached going to be bothered one way or the other? Seriously, for as much heat as it generates, it's not a issue that directly impacts the life of very many people who probably care more about whether their garbage gets picked up on Thursday or Tuesday.

At the same time, it exposes we have a radical Supreme Court and Republican party. Abortion doesn't affect me, but the precedent it sends and other cases that can be overturned could. This is likely just the start. 

[Tigeraholic1]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

yes and no. There is a lot more energy around the Evangelical anti-abortion position as that carries the tone of a religious crusade. OTOH, for the majority of status quo supporters it isn't that big an issue.  I don't think it will energize middle toward the left as much as it lets air out of the balloon on the right. Everyone with a pulse knew this would be the ultimate outcome if they sat on their butts after Obama, but it wasn't enough to drive enough of a wave of turnout other than in '18. But the right side grievance generating machine is pretty well oiled today and it may chug merrily along even without one of it's biggest single issues.

If this was/is such a hot button issue I see no way forward for the right to control anything. 

[Archie]

18 minutes ago, pfife said:

irony

Another irony is the people that support mass abortions are the same people that want to get rid of firearms because too many kids are  dying. Its so rediculous you can't make these things up. Go figure!

Edited May 6, 2022 by Archie

[mtutiger]

4 hours ago, Motown Bombers said:

Defund the police was a slogan by a small minority and not supported by any level of the Democratic party. Defund the police wasn't actually about defunding them but allocating funds to better prevent crime. I'll give you the left is pretty awful at creating slogans. 

Worth noting as well that the ARP provided funding to the police.

In theory anyway, should diffuse that talking point, but will not.

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

But what about the extreme on the left. 

It's a different day and age, but stuff like this should give GOP consultants nightmares 

[Motown Bombers]

3 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

If this was/is such a hot button issue I see no way forward for the right to control anything. 

They'll still control the legislative branches in most states. All these little states are red states with two senators. The 21 least populous states in the country have the same population as California. That's 42 senators vs 2 and most of those states are red states. The Democrats will need a super majority to pass the law and/or carve out the filibuster. This government is set up to favor the minority party. 

[Motown Bombers]

5 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

It's a different day and age, but stuff like this should give GOP consultants nightmares 

But Hillary Clinton called them deplorables. She's so extreme and no one on the left can reign her in. 

[mtutiger]

11 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

But Hillary Clinton called them deplorables. She's so extreme and no one on the left can reign her in. 

Every candidate in the fall (and earlier) should be asked hard questions about who should be held criminally liable, whether they are in favor of exceptions for rape or incest or life of mother, whether certain forms of contraceptions should be banned, etc. Those in favor of this decision more generally should be asked those questions as well.

I genuinely respect the position on moral grouds, I get it, but for as long as I've been debating this issue, the most pro-life side of the debate generally just sidesteps or avoids these sorts of questions. Because they are hard and difficult questions that do not fit neatly into the absolutism of the stance they take. It's just easy to shoot first and ask questions later.

It really isn't about politics or anything like that, the people simply deserve to know what these candidates wish to do and how it will impact their lives if Roe is reversed.

Edited May 6, 2022 by mtutiger

[Mr.TaterSalad]

1 hour ago, Archie said:

After looking more into this and getting past the democrats vote pandering rhetoric, there could be little change. Instead of a federal law this will be going to the states to  decide.  All this crap about going  after others for gay or interracial marriage etc. is just stupidand fear mongering over nothing. 

Ah yes, the old states rights argument. So you don't support a federal law that bans abortions then?

Edited May 6, 2022 by Mr.TaterSalad

[casimir]

16 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Every candidate in the fall (and earlier) should be asked hard questions about who should be held criminally liable, whether they are in favor of exceptions for rape or incest or life of mother, whether certain forms of contraceptions should be banned, etc. Those in favor of this decision more generally should be asked those questions as well.

I genuinely respect the position on moral grouds, I get it, but for as long as I've been debating this issue, the most pro-life side of the debate generally just sidesteps or avoids these sorts of questions. Because they are hard and difficult questions that do not fit neatly into the absolutism of the stance they take. It's just easy to shoot first and ask questions later.

It really isn't about politics or anything like that, the people simply deserve to know what these candidates wish to do and how it will impact their lives if Roe is reversed.

I'm pro life.  But I also acknowledge that issues like rape/incest/health of mother & child don't fit so nicely into that view.  And I cannot quite figure out how this seems to be a one size fits all for some folks.

You know, you look at the generalities of the two major parties in the country in their general ideologies.  One side is firmly against abortions but damn straight you better be able to holster a killing toy on your person if you so choose.  The other side just flips on both, and then you've got the irony of folks that were given the chance of life promoting ending life before the fetus gets a shot at it (exceptions noted above).  I have a really hard time squaring this away.

[pfife]

1 hour ago, Archie said:

Another irony is the people that support mass abortions are the same people that want to get rid of firearms because too many kids are  dying. Its so rediculous you can't make these things up. Go figure!

It's like how pro-life people choose firearms over dying kids!   It's so rediculous you can't make these things up.  Go figure!

[Motown Bombers]

 

[Tigeraholic1]

1 hour ago, romad1 said:

That would be like saying "The holocaust was the best thing that happened to the Jews because of all the excellent books the survivors wrote"

Many pro life folks like myself view the dead babies as a holocaust so there is that.