SCOTUS and whatnot

[Tigeraholic1]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

Gee, little did I know I should claim moral superiority for my views since my grandfather's family was massacred in the Armenian Holocaust.

Everybody gets mad when I mention Nazis Narne decree as similar as the push for abortions in the U.S. so I stopped comparing them. Then Rob referenced Nazis today so here we are. You guys asked why I feel this way and I mentioned my grandmas story and her conviction against abortion. 

[Tigeraholic1]

14 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I'll let my doctor determine that instead of you or the government. 

You were good if I am not mistaken for a gov't mandate for the COVID vax right? 🤔

Edited May 13, 2022 by Tigeraholic1

[Tigeraholic1]

7 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Of course not, I've already claimed not to, but I'm not trying to put a particular view into law, you are, so your's is the burden of rational argument to convince other people without invoking your religious beliefs.

Hmm so there is no clear day when these things happen we just know they do..... Sounds almost like belief! LOL

[Motown Bombers]

Speaking of Nazis, this domestic supply of infants sounds an awful lot like the Nazis Lebensborn program. 

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, oblong said:

BTW, I credit Michael Kinsley for opening my eyes up to that logic. 

If people truly felt that abortion was "murder" and that a fetus was the very same thing as a baby 2 weeks after the birth, then what does it say about them if they do not try to stop that at all costs?  Of course, we tragically know that some of the fanatics do believe that and have murdered and tried to murder women seeking abortions and the doctors...  but nearly everyone who opposes abortion and uses those terms does not agree with those actions.  I argue it's inconsistent if you truly felt that way.  But if they then acquiesce that it's not reallly murder or a baby then they go down the compromise path.

 

 

 

Related, I'll ask again: who should be held criminally liable for an abortion in a post-Roe world?

For anyone who is ideologically committed to the cause, these all seem like really simple questions, and it's hard to get straight answers to any of them. 

[Tigeraholic1]

1 minute ago, mtutiger said:

Related, I'll ask again: who should be held criminally liable for an abortion in a post-Roe world?

For anyone who is ideologically committed to the cause, these all seem like really simple questions, and it's hard to get straight answers to any of them. 

I am not a lawyer or claim to know but wouldn't any pre RVW exsting law take precedence unitl that law is challenged in court?

[Archie]

4 hours ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

I respect everyones opinion on this. I just think there is a better way to handling unwanted pregnancies. I am also glad we are not like countries in Europe that allow abortions because kids will have Down Syndrome and other unwanted defects like this. Do I have all the answers? Nope, but a reset and evaluation is a great thing. Maybe we can add laws like DNA test to make sure the father is held accountable. Rape, incest, mothers health should have a totally different set of rules in regards to abortion for sure.

Off my soapbox and will not bring it up again until the law actually changes. 

This will make you look bad with your friends here but I agree with you 100%.  There still are reasons why ending a pregnancy is necessary, but abortion shouldn't be a form of birth control.

[Kacie]

1 hour ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

No one is bragging but I believe as do many others that life begins at the point of conception. 

You may has missed my post earlier that my Grandma was a Holocaust survivor and took my family to MANY Anti-abortion vigils and marches. Don't twist words to sound cute.

A baby at 2 weeks inside the womb is still the same baby two weeks after birth. There is no trap, that fetus, embryo is still a BABY.

Sorry I am not fire bombing abortion clinics but thats also not what Jesus would have done. He would lead a march or cross a bridge in Selma. 

Sorry to bring up your faith, I apologize for that. I enjoy your posts most of the time but we will just have to agree to disagree.

 

Then child support should start at conception?  Government assistance should start at conception? If men are held responsible and it has a financial impact on others, abortion would suddenly become easily available.  

The same people who profess to be so concerned about the "unborn" couldn't give a rat's ass when the babies are born.  

Most who think adoption is the answer haven't adopted.  Most who think it's wrong to terminate those with special needs aren't in favor of providing funds for life time education and care.  Most are unconcerned that guns are slaughtering children more often than abortion.  Most aren't in favor of paid parental leave, medicare for all, child care credits, free student lunches, student loan relief...all things that would likely reduce the incidence of needing to terminate a pregnancy.  

If only the baby killer crowd put the same amount of effort into pregnancy prevention as they did into stopping abortion.  Why isn't Jesus preventing unwanted pregnancies and giving babies to those who are having trouble conceiving?  Why isn't Jesus providing funds for those who can't afford babies?  

If you want to know when a zygote becomes an embryo, a fetus, a baby, read a science book.  It's all in there.  

FWIW, the "Bible" says life begins at first breath.  So it's settled.  

[Tiger337]

44 minutes ago, Archie said:

This will make you look bad with your friends here but I agree with you 100%.  There still are reasons why ending a pregnancy is necessary, but abortion shouldn't be a form of birth control.

It's OK.  He already looks bad.  😄

[Tigeraholic1]

26 minutes ago, Kacie said:

  Most are unconcerned that guns are slaughtering children more often than abortion.  

This is 100% false

the rest of your rant spoke to gov’t paying for the majority of it. So we do want gov’t to pay for the everything but we don’t want the gov’t to tell you what to do, got it.

Edited May 13, 2022 by Tigeraholic1

[Tigeraholic1]

Kacie does bring up a good point. It’s seems the room here thinks that if the doctor tells you the baby will be special needs you should have the right to terminate and try again next time?

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Hmm so there is no clear day when these things happen we just know they do..... Sounds almost like belief! LOL

Ok then, if it's all belief, then everyone's belief is as good as anyone else's and I guess we have to sit down and work out the best compromises we can through the political process instead of bringing moral absolutism to the table and calling other opinions valueless and calling opponents murders and the like.

[mtutiger]

8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Ok then, if it's all belief, then everyone's belief is as good as anyone else's and I guess we have to sit down and work out the best compromises we can through the political process instead of bringing moral absolutism to the table and calling other opinions valueless and calling opponents murders and the like.

Pretty much.

[Kacie]

13 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Kacie does bring up a good point. It’s seems the room here thinks that if the doctor tells you the baby will be special needs you should have the right to terminate and try again next time?

I think anyone should be able to terminate a pregnancy because they choose to for whatever reason, just as I did.  You're saying let all children be born and let them suffer because the parents may not have the ability to provide care?  You will offer to adopt and provide all the financial and emotional support needed, right?  You're pro life but not willing to actually help children? Got it.  You totally care about life as long as it doesn't inconvenience you or your pocketbook.  How very Christian of you.  Let me guess, you think ectopic pregnancies should be saved?  LOL

The same people trying to ban abortion are also against gun control.  That is not false.  Same people who don't give a shit about putting immigrant children in cages at the border. Same people who didn't care if old and fat people died from COVID. Same people who think rape is an opportunity that you should just relax and enjoy.  Same people who don't care that women are dying from lack of pre natal care and post partum depression. 

 

[Motown Bombers]

Have the pro lifers ever considered having more abortions to stop those from having abortions?

[oblong]

It God wanted the pre born to have full autonomy she would have made it so women laid eggs instead of carrying for 9 months.  Until the baby is born it’s a part of the mothers body and she and her doctor should made the decisions free from the government.  That’s the conservative way right?  Let people make their own decisions privately.  

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, oblong said:

It God wanted the pre born to have full autonomy she would have made it so women laid eggs instead of carrying for 9 months.  Until the baby is born it’s a part of the mothers body and she and her doctor should made the decisions free from the government.  That’s the conservative way right?  Let people make their own decisions privately.  

Exactly. If you were really a big believer in omnipotent creation this should be an obvious view, i.e. "This is the way it was designed/meant to be".  That this logic gets zero consideration only proves that theologically there are a lot more wheels spinning on this issue than the spinners will ever admit to. The more likely anthropological truth is that ever since Humans devised culture, the human male race has suffered a primordial fear of emasculation at the hands of female sexuality and thus it  *always* looks for avenues of cultural punishment and suppression, from Witch trials to abortion law to the Burka laws from the Committees on Virtue and Vice's in Islam.

Edited May 13, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Archie]

2 hours ago, Kacie said:

Most are unconcerned that guns are slaughtering children more often than abortion. 

That is a 1000% false statement.  You should do some research because the numbers aren't even close.  There's about 1 million (some years more) babies aborted each in the US alone each year.  In 2019 less than 1,000 children under 17 were killed by gun violence in the US.  Since 1963 about 193,000 have been killed by gun violence.  So far in 2020 more babies have been aborted than kids have been killed by firearms in the last 59 years.  Anytime a child dies for any reason is sad but to kill them before they are born and not even given a chance is terrible.  

[oblong]

Another in the “what is the pro life solution for this?”   This is the reality and the kind of situations are laws are supposed to accommodate.  
 

not the insane “domestic supply of adoption” by the freak ACB. Guess the right wingers are tired of settling for black kids. 

[Tiger337]

2 hours ago, Archie said:

That is a 1000% false statement.  You should do some research because the numbers aren't even close.  There's about 1 million (some years more) babies aborted each in the US alone each year.  In 2019 less than 1,000 children under 17 were killed by gun violence in the US.  Since 1963 about 193,000 have been killed by gun violence.  So far in 2020 more babies have been aborted than kids have been killed by firearms in the last 59 years.  Anytime a child dies for any reason is sad but to kill them before they are born and not even given a chance is terrible.  

She's not wrong if she thinks that abortion is not murder which is the opinion of many many people.  Furthermore, I would say that a kid being slaughtered by a gun touches a lot more people than an abortion.  Those school massacres affect entire communities for years and familiies and friends forever.  in the majority of cases, the only person affected by an abortion is the mother.  

[oblong]

We have to go thru metal detectors at baseball games because Goober insists on having guns available to him so he can play “army” in the woods. 

[Archie]

9 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

She's not wrong if she thinks that abortion is not murder which is the opinion of many many people.  Furthermore, I would say that a kid being slaughtered by a gun touches a lot more people than an abortion.  Those school massacres affect entire communities for years and familiies and friends forever.  in the majority of cases, the only person affected by an abortion is the mother.  

That's ok.  Factual statements aren't something common on this forum or anywhere when its coming from liberals.

[pfife]

31 minutes ago, Archie said:

That's ok.  Factual statements aren't something common on this forum or anywhere when its coming from liberals.

Factual statements are very common from liberals

[Archie]

44 minutes ago, pfife said:

Factual statements are very common from liberals

Not really. There all kinds of false info from the Biden admin about inflation, jobs and the economy.  Except Joe doesn't know it because he can't remember what he said or doesn't know what he's going to say next.  

Just because someone doesn't believe something is bad doesn't mean it isn't.  A former MSU basketball player was shot and killed last week.  The guy who shot him believes he was justified so should we would just let him walk?  

When someone says guns have killed more kids that abortion it's a very ignorant statement and takes all credibility away from their argument. 

[Motown Bombers]