SCOTUS and whatnot

[pfife]

9 hours ago, Archie said:

Not really. There all kinds of false info from the Biden admin about inflation, jobs and the economy.  Except Joe doesn't know it because he can't remember what he said or doesn't know what he's going to say next.  

Just because someone doesn't believe something is bad doesn't mean it isn't.  A former MSU basketball player was shot and killed last week.  The guy who shot him believes he was justified so should we would just let him walk?  

When someone says guns have killed more kids that abortion it's a very ignorant statement and takes all credibility away from their argument. 

oh you said liberals not the biden admin at any rate that stuff they said is pretty much true too

[Tiger337]

11 hours ago, Archie said:

That's ok.  Factual statements aren't something common on this forum or anywhere when its coming from liberals.

Your statement was an opinion, not fact.  

[Tiger337]

9 hours ago, Archie said:

Not really. There all kinds of false info from the Biden admin about inflation, jobs and the economy.  Except Joe doesn't know it because he can't remember what he said or doesn't know what he's going to say next.  

Just because someone doesn't believe something is bad doesn't mean it isn't.  A former MSU basketball player was shot and killed last week.  The guy who shot him believes he was justified so should we would just let him walk?  

When someone says guns have killed more kids that abortion it's a very ignorant statement and takes all credibility away from their argument. 

Biden is not a liberal.  

[Kacie]

10 hours ago, Archie said:

Not really. There all kinds of false info from the Biden admin about inflation, jobs and the economy.  Except Joe doesn't know it because he can't remember what he said or doesn't know what he's going to say next.  

Just because someone doesn't believe something is bad doesn't mean it isn't.  A former MSU basketball player was shot and killed last week.  The guy who shot him believes he was justified so should we would just let him walk?  

When someone says guns have killed more kids that abortion it's a very ignorant statement and takes all credibility away from their argument. 

Embryos aren't kids.

[Archie]

16 hours ago, Kacie said:

Embryos aren't kids.

Oh really, so how far along in a pregnancy should an abortion no longer be performed?

[mtutiger]

 

[gehringer_2]

15 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

 

Religious extremism is toxic to, and incompatible with,  any successful open and pluralistic society. Period.

Edited May 15, 2022 by gehringer_2

[gehringer_2]

On 5/13/2022 at 6:17 PM, oblong said:

It God wanted the pre born to have full autonomy she would have made it so women laid eggs instead of carrying for 9 months.  Until the baby is born it’s a part of the mothers body and she and her doctor should made the decisions free from the government.  That’s the conservative way right?  Let people make their own decisions privately.  

It's hard to not keep coming back to how twisted and vacuous the arguments from 'God's Christian Law' are across all these culture issues. There are 10 things prohibited in the single most foundational statement of legislation in the Christian Bible. 7 of them are completely legal in the US, an 8th is practiced as a political art form,  and I don't hear a soul in US political Christianity complaining about it. 

[Kacie]

1 hour ago, Archie said:

Oh really, so how far along in a pregnancy should an abortion no longer be performed?

So you're saying you have no idea what the law is?  Thought so.  Usually those that go on about "late term abortions" know absolutely nothing about it or that it isn't actually a thing.    Kind of like CRT.  But they brainwashed sheep hear something on Fox News and get all bent out of shape over something that doesn't actually exist.

[Archie]

26 minutes ago, Kacie said:

So you're saying you have no idea what the law is?  Thought so.  Usually those that go on about "late term abortions" know absolutely nothing about it or that it isn't actually a thing.    Kind of like CRT.  But they brainwashed sheep hear something on Fox News and get all bent out of shape over something that doesn't actually exist.

I know what the law is but I was asking for your liberal opinion on what you think it should be.  I think you know what I was asking and you're just deflecting.

Edited May 15, 2022 by Archie

[pfife]

lol at the implicit assumption that she owes you an answer to a question

[Kacie]

1 hour ago, Archie said:

I know what the law is but I was asking for your liberal opinion on what you think it should be.  I think you know what I was asking and you're just deflecting.

Oh, and here I thought you wanted my thoughts as an adjunct Histology and Embryology instructor.  Stupid me.  

Since you're so against deflecting, by all means enlighten me on the laws.

[Motown Bombers]

 

[gehringer_2]

56 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

 

They should invite him to their 'half' of Tulsa and just arrest him, their jurisdiction would be about equivalent to what he's claiming...

Edited May 15, 2022 by gehringer_2

[ewsieg]

On 5/13/2022 at 4:58 PM, Kacie said:

If you want to know when a zygote becomes an embryo, a fetus, a baby, read a science book.  It's all in there.  

There is a fact though that we need a legal standing, not just a medical one.  Most states have laws on the books which add charges for killing an fetus during a felony.  Even in blue states, democrats have conceded that a wanted baby is worthy of having the hands of justice defend it.   There is no medical book out there that will say there is a medical difference between a wanted or unwanted fetus.

I'm not sure what the answer should be, but playing politics with this issue isn't benefiting the country.  I think the Dems could have codified abortion after a set period and/or after the case of rape, incest, and the health of the mother.  Instead, it lives to play it's part in the 2022 election.   To note - pretty much all of the outrage towards the GOP I've read in the last few pages is justified as well.

[CMRivdogs]

They just keep getting scummier...

The Supreme Court’s conservative majority has been at war with campaign finance laws for more than a dozen years, stretching at least as far back as its decision in Citizens United v. FEC (2010). On Monday, the Court’s six Republican appointees escalated this war. 

The Court’s decision in FEC v. Ted Cruz for Senate is a boon to wealthy candidates. It strikes down an anti-bribery law that limited the amount of money candidates could raise after an election in order to repay loans they made to their own campaign.

Federal law permits candidates to loan money to their campaigns. In 2001, however, Congress prohibited campaigns from repaying more than $250,000 of these loans using funds raised after the election. They can repay as much as they want from campaign donations received before the election (although a federal regulation required them to do so “within 20 days of the election”).

The idea is that, if already-elected officials can solicit donations to repay what is effectively their own personal debt, lobbyists and others seeking to influence lawmakers can put money directly into the elected official’s pocket — and campaign donations that personally enrich a lawmaker are particularly likely to lead to corrupt bargains. Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) manufactured a case to try to overturn that $250,000 limit, and now, the Court has sided with him.

[Kacie]

9 hours ago, ewsieg said:

There is a fact though that we need a legal standing, not just a medical one.  Most states have laws on the books which add charges for killing an fetus during a felony.  Even in blue states, democrats have conceded that a wanted baby is worthy of having the hands of justice defend it.   There is no medical book out there that will say there is a medical difference between a wanted or unwanted fetus.

I'm not sure what the answer should be, but playing politics with this issue isn't benefiting the country.  I think the Dems could have codified abortion after a set period and/or after the case of rape, incest, and the health of the mother.  Instead, it lives to play it's part in the 2022 election.   To note - pretty much all of the outrage towards the GOP I've read in the last few pages is justified as well.

Fair enough, but laws are often based on medical facts...at least they used to be...That there are lawmakers actually attempting to criminalize ectopic pregnancies is so beyond preposterous, it's hard to even wrap my brain around.  In the past, it wasn't even considered not to have exceptions for rape and incest or to save the life of the mother, not that's a common talking point.  There aren't numbers or facts that will pacify the Archie Deflectors.  They really don't even know what they're against or why, don't care if people die or if lives are destroyed, but it owns the libs.  

[ewsieg]

11 hours ago, Kacie said:

Fair enough, but laws are often based on medical facts

Well, I'm sure that is the case with some issues, but it's not the case with all.  We treat our pets more humanely at end of life than we do our own grandparents, but that's just my opinion.

Additionally, it's tough to say 'medical fact'.  What is true today in medicine, doesn't mean it's true tomorrow.  Most people do not support abortions through the third trimester. My opinion on that is most start to look at the baby bump on a mom as a baby, not a fetus, at that point.  Add in the fact that fetus' can survive without their mother as early as late 2nd trimester and it adds to the argument that they are separate human beings at that point.  My sister was the smallest baby to survive in Michigan at the time she was born, now babies born 2-3 weeks earlier than her still have over a 50% chance of survival.  

Still though, your point you're making on the opposition is spot on, there is no change for a legitimate debate with folks that are extreme.  In the end, I'm with Bill Clinton, I want abortions to be safe, legal, and rare. 

[Motown Bombers]

 

[Kacie]

9 hours ago, ewsieg said:

Well, I'm sure that is the case with some issues, but it's not the case with all.  We treat our pets more humanely at end of life than we do our own grandparents, but that's just my opinion.

Additionally, it's tough to say 'medical fact'.  What is true today in medicine, doesn't mean it's true tomorrow.  Most people do not support abortions through the third trimester. My opinion on that is most start to look at the baby bump on a mom as a baby, not a fetus, at that point.  Add in the fact that fetus' can survive without their mother as early as late 2nd trimester and it adds to the argument that they are separate human beings at that point.  My sister was the smallest baby to survive in Michigan at the time she was born, now babies born 2-3 weeks earlier than her still have over a 50% chance of survival.  

Still though, your point you're making on the opposition is spot on, there is no change for a legitimate debate with folks that are extreme.  In the end, I'm with Bill Clinton, I want abortions to be safe, legal, and rare. 

You kind of made the point I was trying to make...In a nutshell, Roe vs Wade, legalized abortion basically without restrictions in the first trimester...banned them in the third trimester with the exception of the mother's or fetus being in a life threatening situation...the second trimester was more open to restrictions.

So OF COURSE everyone is against third trimester abortions, because they don't happen.  The Archie Deflector nuts have their cult believing there are tens of thousands of women 9 months pregnant lined up at abortion clinics waiting to abort their pregnancy.  The reality is much different.  Even for women whose lives are in danger face a nearly impossible task to try and end their pregnancy.  It's outrageously expensive (10k or more) and requires an out of state trip and there are literally only a couple of physicians in the entire country who will risk their lives to perform them.  Ireland legalized abortion after ONE woman in her second trimester died after doctors refused to induce labor when her fetus had already died. 

Late Term/partial birth abortions, CRT, open borders, etc...all non existent dog whistles that make the sheep salivate.

 

[ewsieg]

1 hour ago, Kacie said:

So OF COURSE everyone is against third trimester abortions, because they don't happen.  The Archie Deflector nuts have their cult believing there are tens of thousands of women 9 months pregnant lined up at abortion clinics waiting to abort their pregnancy.  The reality is much different. 

You're spot on with everything you posted, i'm only singling this portion out, not because you're wrong, but just a point I want to make.  I may be off a bit, but i'm pretty confident the last time I read about when abortions happened, 99% of abortions occur by the mid-way point of the second trimester.  So your point above is well taken.

But that brings me back to this past week when if the dems only put in a ban in the third trimester outside of the health of the mother, you might have seen it pass.  

So to me, the Dems are willing to allow what we know is likely inevitable to happen, in the hopes that they only get beat a little bit in the mid-terms.  Instead of doing something that their voters want, they are once again choosing to use it as a campaign issue.  How did that work out for them with Garland?  I don't get it.

[oblong]

26 minutes ago, ewsieg said:

 

But that brings me back to this past week when if the dems only put in a ban in the third trimester outside of the health of the mother, you might have seen it pass.  

 

No it wouldn’t.  The GOP would still not be satisfied.  They are barely going along with any exceptions for “life” of the mother, if at all,  let alone health of the mother . They think health is too broad of a term.  You know…, life is risky.  Don’t want to take a risk?  Don’t have sex. Don’t fight God’s will.  That’s what they really think.  

[pfife]

Hahahahahahahaha a bipartisan abortion bill passing?   Lmfao 

That's quality material

[ewsieg]

6 minutes ago, pfife said:

Hahahahahahahaha a bipartisan abortion bill passing?   Lmfao 

That's quality material

My bad, i've been studying for a cert and haven't paid as much attention lately, but saw the left jump down Manchin's throat like he was the lone reason why it failed.  Assumed there was some reason why they only needed 50 for this one.

[Motown Bombers]

The Democrats could out with a full abortion ban and Republicans would vote against it.