SCOTUS and whatnot

[ben9753]

Honest question: all the talk about codifying Abortion right on a federal law, and abolishing the filibuster to do it, isn’t that just a band aid? Won’t President Trump/Desantis/whoever the best R president is simply reverse it?

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, ben9753 said:

Honest question: all the talk about codifying Abortion right on a federal law, and abolishing the filibuster to do it, isn’t that just a band aid? Won’t President Trump/Desantis/whoever the best R president is simply reverse it?

that was one of the reasons the Supreme Court wrote Roe in the 1st place - you had wide discrepancies in the law around the country and no prospect of clear or consistent Federal law guidance. But the idea among Justices that the SCOTUS was actually there to try and make thing work better in the US, instead as a beachhead for revanchist conservative social policy has long been lost.

[Tiger337]

23 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Here come the corporate responses

Corporate responses are important.  They and consumers are what ultimately run the United $tates.  Government obviously doesn't care about individual consumers, but corporations have tremendous influence.  Their influence is selfish, but can be useful.  

[mtutiger]

The Leader of France, the country that has often been held up as an example by conservatives due to their limits on the practice, responds.

[Motor City Sonics]

26 minutes ago, ben9753 said:

Honest question: all the talk about codifying Abortion right on a federal law, and abolishing the filibuster to do it, isn’t that just a band aid? Won’t President Trump/Desantis/whoever the best R president is simply reverse it?

Thus increasing the importance in voting against them and not sitting it out.   

[mtutiger]

 

[Tigerbomb13]

 

[Motown Bombers]

41 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Here come the corporate responses

Can't wait until my CEO responds. My company donated to 10 senate candidates in 2020. Seven of them confirmed judges that overturned Roe and another was John James. James was the only one who wasn't an office holder. Peters and Stabenow are the only ones who didn't confirm these justices. 

[mtutiger]

The dog that caught the car...

Edited June 24, 2022 by mtutiger

[Motown Bombers]

Just so I'm clear, states have the right to regulate abortion and not guns right? 

[gehringer_2]

Well, in a sense, the decks are now cleared. The GOP has put two of the most theoretically energizing issues in front the left/middle left if could have. The GOP is still tied to the worst leadership in it's history. If the Dems can't sweep 2022, then we can forget about the left/center-left building any kind of winning coalition for at least a couple more cycles. 2018 provided a teaser, but that coalition didn't grow and ground was lost in 2020. Employment is still high, COVID worries have dissipated, gas prices will be falling by fall, and Presidents are blamed for inflation more than Congresses and he isn't running. This year or never.

 

Edited June 24, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Motown Bombers]

5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Well, in a sense, the decks are now cleared. The GOP has put two of the most theoretically energizing issues in front the left/middle left if could have. The GOP is still tied to the worst leadership in it's history. If the Dems can't sweep 2022, then we can forget about the left/center-left building any kind of winning coalition for at least a couple more cycles. 2018 provided a teaser, but that coalition didn't grow and ground was lost in 2020. Employment is still high, COVID worries have dissipated, gas prices will be falling by fall, and Presidents are blamed for inflation more than Congresses and he isn't running. This year or never.

 

There are also a lot of entitled and whiney Democrats who are mad all their demands weren't met in two years and are going to sit out. The same ones who didn't vote for Hillary because she got paid for speeches and used the term super predator when most of them were toddlers. 

Edited June 24, 2022 by Motown Bombers

[oblong]

I have to imagine this more than anything has to mobilize the under 30 vote. If this won’t then nothing will. 

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, Motor City Sonics said:

The problem with black market abortion drugs is this.    There are some truly evil people out there that make these things, that are not overseen and could market it as an abortion pill and even make it look like it's an abortion pill.     This happens with opiates,  people think they are buying vicodin from the dark web but this "vicodin" was made with something else and made to look like the real thing,  often with fentanyl in it.    That's what happened to Prince.  He got illegal opioids, not knowing there was fentanyl in it and took his typical dose, which was higher than most since he was an addict.     That'll happen here too.    Buying a medication on the black market online is just a death wish.      Even a heroin dealer is usually smart enough to not sell something that will kill their customers, they want them coming back.   Online dealers don't care, they can't be traced and are constantly changing identities.  

I'm not saying this would be a preferable state of affairs, because it wouldn't, so don't misconstrue this reply in that context.

I could see where the black market for abortion pills would be very different from the black market for heroin or fentanyl. I would bet that the providers of such black market pills would, for the most part, not be the same sort of criminal drug dealers who deal in those other drugs, but more likely be committed abortion rights advocates putting themselves at great risk because they are motivated to help women living behind the Fetus Curtain exercise control over their own bodies.

[chasfh]

23 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Well, in a sense, the decks are now cleared. The GOP has put two of the most theoretically energizing issues in front the left/middle left if could have. The GOP is still tied to the worst leadership in it's history. If the Dems can't sweep 2022, then we can forget about the left/center-left building any kind of winning coalition for at least a couple more cycles. 2018 provided a teaser, but that coalition didn't grow and ground was lost in 2020. Employment is still high, COVID worries have dissipated, gas prices will be falling by fall, and Presidents are blamed for inflation more than Congresses and he isn't running. This year or never.

 

If it's a free, fair and unfettered election, the Democrats will win the House and Senate.

[Motown Bombers]

3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

If it's a free, fair and unfettered election, the Democrats will win the House and Senate.

I'm not as confident Democrats will win. They have such flakey voters. McConnell held a Supreme Court seat hostage for 9 months and they still didn't vote. 

[chasfh]

There may actually be a pretty simple way red states with contestable races could avoid an electoral catastrophe in November that might result from this issue: don't pass outright abortion bans, and publicly state that they have no plans to. If they have prior abortion bans that are going back into effect now that Roe is toast, such as Michigan has, put the law on hold. The idea is to turn the heat on the issue way down while heating up whatever issues hurt Democrats.

Then, after the Republicans win in November, lower the abortion ban boom.

Then go on Fox, OANN and Newsmax and cackle about how they put one over on the stupid voters.

[chasfh]

2 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I'm not as confident Democrats will win. They have such flakey voters. McConnell held a Supreme Court seat hostage for 9 months and they still didn't vote. 

It's not all about flaky voters. A lot of it has to do with the state selectively restricting voter access to the polls. Thus, the qualifying statement leading off the post.

[gehringer_2]

Column about how medical (pharmaceutical) abortion will go on in the face of the overturn of Roe.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/23/opinion/abortion-pills-online-roe-v-wade.html?

[Motown Bombers]

2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

There may actually be a pretty simple way red states with contestable races could avoid an electoral catastrophe in November that might result from this issue: don't pass outright abortion bans, and publicly state that they have no plans to. If they have prior abortion bans that are going back into effect now that Roe is toast, such as Michigan has, put the law on hold. The idea is to turn the heat on the issue way down while heating up whatever issues hurt Democrats.

Then, after the Republicans win in November, lower the abortion ban boom.

Then go on Fox, OANN and Newsmax and cackle about how they put one over on the stupid voters.

Biden will veto any abortion ban so they won't do it until 2024. If you start doing it in states prior to 2024, it will set up the same situation they are in now. 

[RatkoVarda]

24 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Well, in a sense, the decks are now cleared. The GOP has put two of the most theoretically energizing issues in front the left/middle left if could have. The GOP is still tied to the worst leadership in it's history. If the Dems can't sweep 2022, then we can forget about the left/center-left building any kind of winning coalition for at least a couple more cycles. 2018 provided a teaser, but that coalition didn't grow and ground was lost in 2020. Employment is still high, COVID worries have dissipated, gas prices will be falling by fall, and Presidents are blamed for inflation more than Congresses and he isn't running. This year or never.

5 minutes ago, oblong said:

I have to imagine this more than anything has to mobilize the under 30 vote. If this won’t then nothing will. 

When this was leaked, what did Dems do to codify Roe? jack sh|t (and yes Sinema and Manchin are a problem)

when Obama had A SUPER MAJORITY of the House and Senate, did he follow thru with his promise to codify Roe on Day 1? nope; jack sh|t again; nothing, just fukking nothing

the Dem party is incompetent - consistently failing to believe the GOP will actually do what the GOP is actually doing

and yes, the fact that some non-significant number of Dems looked at Hillary and Trump and could not see any difference is insane

this party and these voters deserve each other

[Motown Bombers]

1 minute ago, chasfh said:

It's not all about flaky voters. A lot of it has to do with the state selectively restricting voter access to the polls. Thus, the qualifying statement leading off the post.

I'm tired of this argument. Michigan has no excuse absentee voting for all voters. Voter turnout in Detroit was only 49%. There were 30 drop boxes in the city of Detroit. They didn't even have to leave their house to vote. Less than half voted. Literally hundreds of thousands of votes were left on the table. If you live in a state like Georgia, you're just going to have to suck it up and wait in line 12 hours because it's not going to get better if you don't. 

[Motown Bombers]

3 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

When this was leaked, what did Dems do to codify Roe? jack sh|t (and yes Sinema and Manchin are a problem)

when Obama had A SUPER MAJORITY of the House and Senate, did he follow thru with his promise to codify Roe on Day 1? nope; jack sh|t again; nothing, just fukking nothing

the Dem party is incompetent - consistently failing to believe the GOP will actually do what the GOP is actually doing

and yes, the fact that some non-significant number of Dems looked at Hillary and Trump and could not see any difference is insane

this party and these voters deserve each other

A bill to codify abortion was passed by the house with zero support from Republicans. 49 out of 50 Democratic senators voted for the bill. 99% of Democrats voted to codify abortion. They simply do not have enough votes. Two more Democrats in the senate would be enough to codify it.  

[chasfh]

7 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

Biden will veto any abortion ban so they won't do it until 2024. If you start doing it in states prior to 2024, it will set up the same situation they are in now. 

How can Biden veto a state's abortion ban?

[chasfh]

7 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

I'm tired of this argument. Michigan has no excuse absentee voting for all voters. Voter turnout in Detroit was only 49%. There were 30 drop boxes in the city of Detroit. They didn't even have to leave their house to vote. Less than half voted. Literally hundreds of thousands of votes were left on the table. If you live in a state like Georgia, you're just going to have to suck it up and wait in line 12 hours because it's not going to get better if you don't. 

lol suck it up

Edited June 24, 2022 by chasfh