2023 Michigan Football

[CMRivdogs]

I'm almost to the point of hoping Michigan says screw it and works out a contract to play JMU in a "Screw NCAA" Bowl😉

[lordstanley]

15 minutes ago, buddha said:

why is this a big deal to you?  because of the public perception?

It's not a big deal to me, really. I don't think it gave a competitive advantage. And living thousands of miles away, no one in my day to day life even pays attention to this, unlike people in the Michigan area who work with, play with or are married to Buckeyes or Spartans. I took two courses on campus years ago but am not  an alum, no U of M degree. In fact, while I prefer this had never happened, last weekend I was getting pumped by the drama, which is really what I turn to sports for. Was setting up for a great week leading up to The Game. But there are people even today on mgoblog who are upset that Michigan is being treated unfairly and should be fighting the NCAA harder on this. I disagree.  I don't see how Michigan could NOT fire the assistant today. Sure, maybe if they knew last week he had deleted evidence they could have written the same letter and taken the same stance - let due process take place, sign stealing is legal, in-person scouting bans are outdated. But when you get new evidence it cuts the legs out from under you and makes you look silly. I'm an M&A advisor and we stress to our clients to tell us the good, the bad and the ugly from the outset and we'll deal with it. Nothing worse than working on a deal for months and making reps and warranties only for something dumb to come out a week before closing.  I agree with what the regents did yesterday, knowing what we now know.  Public perception matters in that, unfairly, it will diminish the accomplishments of this team and last year's. Public perception, as in Michigan supporters may have to take some ribbing from haters over this, does not matter to me.

Edited November 17, 2023 by lordstanley

[romad1]

Narrative shift.  fudge.....

[Tigeraholic1]

16 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Narrative shift.  fudge.....

So it is NOT an elaborate scheme conjured up by Ryan Day and his bro-in-law after all? Who woulda thunk it? 🤪

[Deleterious]

1 minute ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

So it is NOT an elaborate scheme conjured up by Ryan Day and his bro-in-law after all? Who woulda thunk it? 🤪

Can the admins please close Tigeraholic1's account.  It appears Ryan Day has hacked it.  

[buddha]

1 hour ago, lordstanley said:

It's not a big deal to me, really. I don't think it gave a competitive advantage. And living thousands of miles away, no one in my day to day life even pays attention to this, unlike people in the Michigan area who work with, play with or are married to Buckeyes or Spartans. I took two courses on campus years ago but am not  an alum, no U of M degree. In fact, while I prefer this had never happened, last weekend I was getting pumped by the drama, which is really what I turn to sports for. Was setting up for a great week leading up to The Game. But there are people even today on mgoblog who are upset that Michigan is being treated unfairly and should be fighting the NCAA harder on this. I disagree.  I don't see how Michigan could NOT fire the assistant today. Sure, maybe if they knew last week he had deleted evidence they could have written the same letter and taken the same stance - let due process take place, sign stealing is legal, in-person scouting bans are outdated. But when you get new evidence it cuts the legs out from under you and makes you look silly. I'm an M&A advisor and we stress to our clients to tell us the good, the bad and the ugly from the outset and we'll deal with it. Nothing worse than working on a deal for months and making reps and warranties only for something dumb to come out a week before closing.  I agree with what the regents did yesterday, knowing what we now know.  Public perception matters in that, unfairly, it will diminish the accomplishments of this team and last year's. Public perception, as in Michigan supporters may have to take some ribbing from haters over this, does not matter to me.

putting the mgoblog stuff aside, putting the motownsports trolls aside, i just dont think the punishment fits the crime.

as for the media, if this were bama or ohio state or any of the other big name teams it would be a big deal to the media.

as for the ncaa, its a big deal because of harbaugh.

as for the big ten, its a big deal because its michigan and pettiti has not handled it well.  if this is the sec, this never happens this way.  the big ten is destroying itself over what is basically a minor violation.  michigan is not helping with its combatitive attitude.

and in all honesty, i dont believe the "institution" of michigan and specifically the athletic department is very well run.  and you can see that in all the stuff that has happened to it very publicly recently.

[Deleterious]

Just to clear some stuff up. Partridge doesn't get due process?

[casimir]

1 hour ago, CMRivdogs said:

Could be an SEC plant

https://uncletsoysterbar.com

 Intriguing.... 

[CMRivdogs]

 

[buddha]

on the topic of harbaugh since no one asked me...

it would not surprise me if he had no knowledge of this.  not because i think harbaugh is a saint - he's a football coach and like every big time football coach is looking to press any advantage he can - but because i dont think organization and attention span are his strengths.

in short, i think harbaugh isnt very smart and is distracted by ambulances.  if you talk to people in chicago they'll tell you how surprised they were he's been so successful because he was "kinda dumb".  i think he's a great football coach.  one of the best football coaches in the sport and will be successful wherever he goes, even the nfl.  but he's constantly distracted, either by the nfl or by shiny objects (josh gattis' spread and shred, don brown's blitzes), or the inability to follow minor rules (cheeseburgers) he probably doesnt even pay attention to, that throw him off track.  its not far fetched for me to believe there are lots of things going on in that football program he knows nothing about.

jim harbaugh is not the evil genius osu makes him out to be: he's just a big dumb football coach.  

a very good, big dumb football coach.

[Tigeraholic1]

7 minutes ago, buddha said:

on the topic of harbaugh since no one asked me...

it would not surprise me if he had no knowledge of this.  not because i think harbaugh is a saint - he's a football coach and like every big time football coach is looking to press any advantage he can - but because i dont think organization and attention span are his strengths.

in short, i think harbaugh isnt very smart and is distracted by ambulances.  if you talk to people in chicago they'll tell you how surprised they were he's been so successful because he was "kinda dumb".  i think he's a great football coach.  one of the best football coaches in the sport and will be successful wherever he goes, even the nfl.  but he's constantly distracted, either by the nfl or by shiny objects (josh gattis' spread and shred, don brown's blitzes), or the inability to follow minor rules (cheeseburgers) he probably doesnt even pay attention to, that throw him off track.  its not far fetched for me to believe there are lots of things going on in that football program he knows nothing about.

jim harbaugh is not the evil genius osu makes him out to be: he's just a big dumb football coach.  

a very good, big dumb football coach.

Sounds like you could insert Joe Biden for Harbaugh in this post! LOL

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, buddha said:

on the topic of harbaugh since no one asked me...

it would not surprise me if he had no knowledge of this.  not because i think harbaugh is a saint - he's a football coach and like every big time football coach is looking to press any advantage he can - but because i dont think organization and attention span are his strengths.

in short, i think harbaugh isnt very smart and is distracted by ambulances.  if you talk to people in chicago they'll tell you how surprised they were he's been so successful because he was "kinda dumb".  i think he's a great football coach.  one of the best football coaches in the sport and will be successful wherever he goes, even the nfl.  but he's constantly distracted, either by the nfl or by shiny objects (josh gattis' spread and shred, don brown's blitzes), or the inability to follow minor rules (cheeseburgers) he probably doesnt even pay attention to, that throw him off track.  its not far fetched for me to believe there are lots of things going on in that football program he knows nothing about.

jim harbaugh is not the evil genius osu makes him out to be: he's just a big dumb football coach.  

a very good, big dumb football coach.

I think this pretty close. It reminds me of A Conan Doyle, in his 1st story where he introduces Sherlock Holmes, Holmes tells Watson he doesn't want to know anything about anything not related to his work because it would just push something he does need to know out of his brain. Harbaugh probably doesn't see the world except in whatever aspects are reflected somehow by football, and as I've said before, I strongly suspect that he is far too credulous toward anyone who professes to be a fan of his  program because he doesn't see past that being a fundamental virtue in a person. I don't know if I would call him dumb exactly as much as narrow. At least since Don Brown he's done pretty well picking coaching talent, which is the head guy's most important asset.

[casimir]

Yeah, you know, you might be on the right track.  Maybe he has the same memory disorder that Urban Meyer has?

[casimir]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

on the topic of harbaugh since no one asked me...

it would not surprise me if he had no knowledge of this.  not because i think harbaugh is a saint - he's a football coach and like every big time football coach is looking to press any advantage he can - but because i dont think organization and attention span are his strengths.

in short, i think harbaugh isnt very smart and is distracted by ambulances.  if you talk to people in chicago they'll tell you how surprised they were he's been so successful because he was "kinda dumb".  i think he's a great football coach.  one of the best football coaches in the sport and will be successful wherever he goes, even the nfl.  but he's constantly distracted, either by the nfl or by shiny objects (josh gattis' spread and shred, don brown's blitzes), or the inability to follow minor rules (cheeseburgers) he probably doesnt even pay attention to, that throw him off track.  its not far fetched for me to believe there are lots of things going on in that football program he knows nothing about.

jim harbaugh is not the evil genius osu makes him out to be: he's just a big dumb football coach.  

a very good, big dumb football coach.

Even if he didn’t know, it’s his job to know.  He’s in charge of the program.  At least, that’s what you thought of Pat Fitzgerald (which, sure, completely different situation).

 

Edited November 17, 2023 by casimir

[MichiganCardinal]

3 minutes ago, casimir said:

Even if he didn’t know, it’s his job to know.  He’s in charge of the program.  At least, that’s what you thought of Pat Fitzgerald (which, sure, completely different situation).

 

I’m not going to defend the MGoBloggers  who have moved goal posts on a daily basis surrounding this whole thing, but….

I don’t think head coach culpability is all that comparable here to what happened at Northwestern. A head coach should absolutely know what kind of culture is existing in front of his own nose, and when it’s a toxic or dangerous culture, that has to fall at his feet and I won’t accept any excuse. Fitzgerald had to go.

I don’t think I feel the same way about a staffer spending his time off recording opposing sidelines. Now if it’s shown that JH did know and it was a coordinated effort, that’s one thing. If the regular sign stealers just did their job though, and Harbaugh didn’t think anything of it, it still falls at his feet ultimately as the leader of the program, but I’m a bit more sympathetic.

Its the degree to how much one should have known, if I’m to accept that they didn’t.

 

[buddha]

12 minutes ago, casimir said:

Even if he didn’t know, it’s his job to know.  He’s in charge of the program.  At least, that’s what you thought of Pat Fitzgerald (which, sure, completely different situation).

 

i agree that it is his job to know.  and he'll face punishment for that from the ncaa about it.

again, my disagreement is that this is not a major thing considering what actually happens in college football.  the punishment does not fit the crime, imo. 

[buddha]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

I think this pretty close. It reminds me of A Conan Doyle, in his 1st story where he introduces Sherlock Holmes, Holmes tells Watson he doesn't want to know anything about anything not related to his work because it would just push something he does need to know out of his brain. Harbaugh probably doesn't see the world except in whatever aspects are reflected somehow by football, and as I've said before, I strongly suspect that he is far too credulous toward anyone who professes to be a fan of his  program because he doesn't see past that being a fundamental virtue in a person. I don't know if I would call him dumb exactly as much as narrow. At least since Don Brown he's done pretty well picking coaching talent, which is the head guy's most important asset.

only you would take that post and reference arthur conan doyle.  lol.  😀

[casimir]

13 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I’m not going to defend the MGoBloggers  who have moved goal posts on a daily basis surrounding this whole thing, but….

I don’t think head coach culpability is all that comparable here to what happened at Northwestern. A head coach should absolutely know what kind of culture is existing in front of his own nose, and when it’s a toxic or dangerous culture, that has to fall at his feet and I won’t accept any excuse. Fitzgerald had to go.

I don’t think I feel the same way about a staffer spending his time off recording opposing sidelines. Now if it’s shown that JH did know and it was a coordinated effort, that’s one thing. If the regular sign stealers just did their job though, and Harbaugh didn’t think anything of it, it still falls at his feet ultimately as the leader of the program, but I’m a bit more sympathetic.

Its the degree to how much one should have known, if I’m to accept that they didn’t.

 

Yes, the situations are as comparable as apples to goal posts.  No argument there.

He either knew and he’s lying or he should have known and is foolish.  It’s an act of commission or an act of omission.  Either way, as the leader of the program, he has to answer to it.

[casimir]

13 minutes ago, buddha said:

i agree that it is his job to know.  and he'll face punishment for that from the ncaa about it.

again, my disagreement is that this is not a major thing considering what actually happens in college football.  the punishment does not fit the crime, imo. 

What should the punishment be?  Maybe you’ve mentioned it before, I don’t know.

[slothfacekilla]

It is wild that coaches across the Big10 knew about this but somehow Harbaugh didn't.

[buddha]

1 minute ago, casimir said:

What should the punishment be?  Maybe you’ve mentioned it before, I don’t know.

a fine to the university.

for harbaugh, maybe a one game suspension next year.

i just dont see the difference between the effect of what michigan did and what other teams did.

[casimir]

5 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said:

It is wild that coaches across the Big10 knew about this but somehow Harbaugh didn't.

That’s a fantastic point.

[casimir]

4 minutes ago, buddha said:

a fine to the university.

for harbaugh, maybe a one game suspension next year.

i just dont see the difference between the effect of what michigan did and what other teams did.

So, suspend him next season after he takes an NFL job.  Ok.

Are we sure other teams are doing the same thing?  There may be some, but is it to the point of what Michigan did?

And I’ll agree with anyone on this:  if other teams knew, why didn’t they change their signs like TCU last season?

[Edman85]

5 hours ago, buddha said:

ncaa two years ago: this provides minimal advantage if any and we need to address whether we need this rule at all.  

ncaa after it finds out someone on jim harbaugh's staff did it: this is the worst scandal in big ten history.

it's laughable.

If anybody is making that case, 12 years after it was discovered a Big Ten school harbored a pedophile who was allowed to exploit dozens of boys in the school's facilities with the legendary head coach, at the most generous interpretation, looking the other way. Remind them.

Others off the top of my head... Clem Haskins paying somebody who do all his students' school work and lying about it... DJ Durkin basically getting a kid killed in practice... Kirk Ferentz's hand-picked strength coach giving a sizeable percentage of the team Rhabdo... Bob Knight in all his Bob Knightness.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Edman85

[buddha]

2 minutes ago, casimir said:

So, suspend him next season after he takes an NFL job.  Ok.

Are we sure other teams are doing the same thing?  There may be some, but is it to the point of what Michigan did?

And I’ll agree with anyone on this:  if other teams knew, why didn’t they change their signs like TCU last season?

im sure other teams are stealing signs.  that's the issue.  i dont think what stalions did was anything special or different or more effective.  the ncaa pretty mich agreed two years ago.