2023 Michigan Football

[Shinzaki]

It's like getting pulled over for doing just more than 5mph over the speed limit.  Sure...you figure you're gold at less than 5...and going faster than that is dicey...but you're still surprised to get pulled over

[romad1]

BET= Buckeye elimination time. 

[Kamakzie]

Also losing to an interim head coach would probably do the trick to get Ryan Day fired.

[lordstanley]

3rd 11-win season in a row, one of which was 12 and one was 13. 
Hoke had 1. 
Carr had 2, one of which was 12. 
Schembechler had 2. 
Yost had 4, one of which was 12. 

Of course no one played more than 12 games in a season, including bowl games, until 2002. 
 

[gehringer_2]

talk about all the intangibles you want, the game is going to hinge on the very tangible question of whether UMs O-line gets healthy.

[romad1]

8 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

talk about all the intangibles you want, the game is going to hinge on the very tangible question of whether UMs O-line gets healthy.

The 97 team had to use Charles Woodson on offense because they needed a jolt every now and then.  I hope/think this team has been hiding some things.  I think the sweeps to Semaj Morgan were broken out judiciously.  

[buddha]

without harbaugh and with all the injuries after the maryland game, michigan is probably an underdog in this game.

[romad1]

My strong suspicion is that the health of Roman Wilson will be a story this week.  With a bunch of twitter feeds from the I-76 I-70 corridor posting information that he is really hurt bad and that Michigan is hiding something.

[casimir]

23 hours ago, buddha said:

what is the difference between what michigan is accused of doing and what ohio state did?  ohio state (and illinois and purdue) was given a list of michigan's signs by greg schiano and rutgers.  signs they stole in person at the game.  

in theory, what is the difference between that and conor stalions taking a video on his phone and using that to steal signs?

the only difference i can see is that what schiano did has been going on since time immemorial.  bert bielema, in his rant against michigan, stated when he was a grad assistant he cut his teeth stealing signs.  that was one of his jobs.  other people i know who worked as grad assistants for college football teams (illinois) told me the same thing.  and then they passed those signs to other GAs on other teams.  thats legal and part of football world.  people i know who played major college football told me similar stuff.  they had the other team's signs all the time.  a lot of times it didnt really help.

so i ask what is the actual real difference between that practice and what michigan did?  in today's day and age of all-22 videos and everything being on tv?  and if there is a real difference, what is the significant competitive advantage that michigan gained by doing it as opposed to just having the signs handed to them by another team?

i dont really see one but i dont play football so i dont know if im missing something.

I guess the difference is that there is a rule against the specific type of advance game scouting in person which Michigan violated, and they got caught doing so, and now they have a punishment to serve.

The fact that two coaches have been fired and Harbaugh accepted a suspension vs Ohio State is pretty much an admission of such violation (or perhaps others as well), don't you think?

[buddha]

2 minutes ago, casimir said:

I guess the difference is that there is a rule against the specific type of advance game scouting in person which Michigan violated, and they got caught doing so, and now they have a punishment to serve.

The fact that two coaches have been fired and Harbaugh accepted a suspension vs Ohio State is pretty much an admission of such violation (or perhaps others as well), don't you think?

right, i agree.  the difference is what that punishment should be and the rhetoric around what happened.

i dont think this is a big deal because of the reality of sign stealing being legal and everyone doing it.  for practical purposes there is little edge gained by michigan over what ohio state did.  in fact, i would say what ohio state did was more effective.  which is not to say ohio state should be punished because what they did was within the rules.

i propose to you that the reason behind the "no in person scouting" rule is antiquated.  it is a rule to protect smaller colleges who dont have the means to send scouts to opposing games from the big schools (like say, all the big ten schools...even purdue!) who could send multiple scouts like nfl teams do.  

the idea that this is the worst scandal in big ten history, or even a scandal at all, is a media creation and the failure of the big ten commissioner to get his conference under control (and that includes getting michigan under control).

[lordstanley]

I’ never played football at a level where game film is studied, so I don’t know, but I always thought sign stealing was one of the reasons you study game film. What plays a team runs, what plays a team runs when lined up in a particular formation, what plays a team runs in particular score and down situations, what plays might be triggered after particular player substitutions, ehat are the individual strengths and weaknesses of each individual on the other team and …what plays are run after specific sideline cues/signs. I see it is all educated guesswork. And I assumed every team would try to use decoy tactics to throw future opponents off. All a big shrug to me if you had asked me a month ago. 

[Hongbit]

Talking a pause from the smack, trolling, excuse making, and all the other general trash in this thread, I think everyone can agree that this is pretty awesome.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

right, i agree.  the difference is what that punishment should be and the rhetoric around what happened.

i dont think this is a big deal because of the reality of sign stealing being legal and everyone doing it.  for practical purposes there is little edge gained by michigan over what ohio state did.  in fact, i would say what ohio state did was more effective.  which is not to say ohio state should be punished because what they did was within the rules.

i propose to you that the reason behind the "no in person scouting" rule is antiquated.  it is a rule to protect smaller colleges who dont have the means to send scouts to opposing games from the big schools (like say, all the big ten schools...even purdue!) who could send multiple scouts like nfl teams do.  

the idea that this is the worst scandal in big ten history, or even a scandal at all, is a media creation and the failure of the big ten commissioner to get his conference under control (and that includes getting michigan under control).

Sure, its antiquated.  Unfortunately its on the books.  Maybe the UoM compliance department should attack its job with an enthusiasm that keeps the program within the letter of the current law.

[casimir]

17 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

Talking a pause from the smack, trolling, excuse making, and all the other general trash in this thread, I think everyone can agree that this is pretty awesome.

This is good stuff, no question.

I worked at a grocery store when I was younger and I think a lot of us can recall that The Game was the Saturday before Thanksgiving.  I remember that the Saturday morning of game day, the place was busy selling snacks, beverages, tailgatey stuff.  Then 3-4 hours of silence during the game.  Then, the place got busy again, this time with the attention turned towards turkey related provisions.

[casimir]

57 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

I’ never played football at a level where game film is studied, so I don’t know, but I always thought sign stealing was one of the reasons you study game film. What plays a team runs, what plays a team runs when lined up in a particular formation, what plays a team runs in particular score and down situations, what plays might be triggered after particular player substitutions, ehat are the individual strengths and weaknesses of each individual on the other team and …what plays are run after specific sideline cues/signs. I see it is all educated guesswork. And I assumed every team would try to use decoy tactics to throw future opponents off. All a big shrug to me if you had asked me a month ago. 

Yeah, again, TCU was cognizant of the rumors last season.  So that leads to (1) if they knew about it and tried means to counteract it, why didn't everybody else and (2) if they knew about it, how did Harbaugh "not know" about it?

[romad1]

Steve Clinksdale still with the team?  Maybe he’s just outraged at Elon. 

[buddha]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

Sure, its antiquated.  Unfortunately its on the books.  Maybe the UoM compliance department should attack its job with an enthusiasm that keeps the program within the letter of the current law.

ive said numerous times that michigan's administration is a mess.

not sure what youre fighting with me about at this point.

[MIguy]

Michigan is a 4 point favorite on Draft Kings.   

[casimir]

44 minutes ago, buddha said:

ive said numerous times that michigan's administration is a mess.

not sure what youre fighting with me about at this point.

I’m not fighting with you about anything.  I’m just kind of confused why you think your opinion of a rule being antiquated has any merit on whether or not the rule is a rule.

The administration seems to have quieted down quite considerably in the last few days, hasn’t it?

Let’s go bitch and moan in the Pistons’ forum for a bit.  I’m sure we can find some common ground there.

[buddha]

19 minutes ago, casimir said:

I’m not fighting with you about anything.  I’m just kind of confused why you think your opinion of a rule being antiquated has any merit on whether or not the rule is a rule.

The administration seems to have quieted down quite considerably in the last few days, hasn’t it?

Let’s go bitch and moan in the Pistons’ forum for a bit.  I’m sure we can find some common ground there.

but i never said it wasnt a rule.

unite in our dislike of james wiseman!

[djhutch]

I think the biggest story next Saturday will be the UM O-Line, specifically in pass coverage.  I'm hoping this week, because Harbaugh can be there during practice, that Moore can work on some quick hit passes to get the ball out of JJ's hands more quickly - in some other way besides runs.

[buddha]

michigan opens a 4 point favorite.

[gehringer_2]

15 minutes ago, djhutch said:

I think the biggest story next Saturday will be the UM O-Line, specifically in pass coverage.  I'm hoping this week, because Harbaugh can be there during practice, that Moore can work on some quick hit passes to get the ball out of JJ's hands more quickly - in some other way besides runs.

I assume Barnhard is usually a guard? He was just being abused by speed ends playing tackle. They can't play another game like that.

[djhutch]

22 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

I assume Barnhard is usually a guard? He was just being abused by speed ends playing tackle. They can't play another game like that.

I don't remember if he's usually a guard - I just know they have not struggled like that in at least 3 years.  Injuries don't help - Maybe we get a guy or two back?

[romad1]

Mondays I have a choice between Sam and Devin screaming at each other on MMQB and the very zen MGOBLOG podcast.  Devin and Sam wore me out today.