Pistons Offseason - 2023

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

left quadriceps tendinitis.

Why do get this constantly sinking feeling about Cade....

Edited October 13, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Betrayer]

Cade was just resting, but I'm not sure I understand it. Even Chet was out there. Cade hasn't even played a full season and really needs the reps with his team.

Ivey still coming off the bench even with Cade out and there was a quote from Monty saying that he's going to lean on the vets and not going to have all young guys in the starting lineup. He also said earlier that Burks was starting because Bogey was out. That means the starting lineup he wants is: Cade, Ausar, Bogey, Stew, Duren. Bad spacing is going to impact Cade on the offensive end, but maybe it'll be a little better defensively.

Ausar is a really good defender. His ability to wall off his man, recover, and defend full court is pretty phenomenal for a rookie. He's immediately our best defender and it's not close.

Wiseman had a nice second half (against the third string). He basically did the same thing Bagley in the first game. Still tries to post up WAY too much and looks lost a lot. This team really needs to move one of those two young bigs and bring in a veteran to be the second or third string guy. I was hoping for McGee when he was available, but not sure who they could get now (Biyombo is a free agent...?)

Killian is getting a lot of praise, but I'm still seeing a lot of the same Killian stuff (can't shoot, over-dribbling, can't get separation). Some stuff looks better though such as a willingness to take contact and more aggressiveness to get his shot. Defense is still solid and ultimately it might be the thing that gets him time on the court - maybe playing SF or maybe just when Burks or Morris are out/resting?

Sasser had a really nice second half in the comeback (against the third string). Showed his quickness, shot making abilities, and some passing.

Umude can shoot.

I know it's preseason, but it's more than a little annoying that this team is never whole. Right now 5 rotation guys are out of the lineup, including 3 starters and both PGs (Cade, Morris, Bogey, Duren, Livers).

 

 

[buddha]

3 hours ago, Shinzaki said:

The one thing Wiseman does consistently well is rebound...is that enough to keep him around?

no

[NYLion]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

Why do get this constantly sinking feeling about Cade....

I do too. I'm very bullish on him if he stays healthy but I just have a bad feeling that he will be a guy who is always battling injuries minor or not. The last 4 years, he's had everything from nagging injuries to a serious one. Definitely concerned

[Betrayer]

I hope the injuries aren't an issue and I can't really count sitting out a preseason game as a real "injury".

Then again, if he is always dealing with injuries then it fits with the rest of the narrative I have for Cade which is that he's a jumbo Chris Paul, not the Luka everyone wants him to be.

[casimir]

I don’t understand scheduling back to back games in the preseason.  Yet, that’s what the Pistons have for it’s final two games.

[buddha]

cade with pre season load management.

[Deleterious]

Cade missed what?  18 games as a rookie.  Start of the year he tweaked an ankle and missed a few games. That is basketball.  He missed 4 played 1 missed one then was fine.  The fact it didn't linger is encouraging. 

 He missed 6 or 7 more for Covid, which has nothing to do with injuries.  The remaining games were rest games basically due to his shin injury.  He obtained that in high school and basically it has two methods to treat it.  Continue to play and miss the occasional game when it becomes too bothersome.  Or get the surgery and have it fully repaired.  He originally wanted to rest and come right back.  The Pistons pushed for the surgery but left it up to him.  He talked to a few players that had the procedure done and was encouraged, so he got the surgery.  

[buddha]

9 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Cade missed what?  18 games as a rookie.  Start of the year he tweaked an ankle and missed a few games. That is basketball.  He missed 4 played 1 missed one then was fine.  The fact it didn't linger is encouraging. 

 He missed 6 or 7 more for Covid, which has nothing to do with injuries.  The remaining games were rest games basically due to his shin injury.  He obtained that in high school and basically it has two methods to treat it.  Continue to play and miss the occasional game when it becomes too bothersome.  Or get the surgery and have it fully repaired.  He originally wanted to rest and come right back.  The Pistons pushed for the surgery but left it up to him.  He talked to a few players that had the procedure done and was encouraged, so he got the surgery.  

and?  

he's missed most of two full seasons.  fot whatever reasons, he's way behind where he should be in terms of games played.

you can play the contrarian card all day, but its a legit worry that he hasnt been playing and its ok for fans to be a bit nervous when he misses even MORE time, no matter what the given reason is.

[Betrayer]

Monty after practice. I think he's starting to realize just how young this team is and how much of a struggle this season is going to be.

 

[NYLion]

On 10/15/2023 at 12:06 PM, Deleterious said:

Cade missed what?  18 games as a rookie.  Start of the year he tweaked an ankle and missed a few games. That is basketball.  He missed 4 played 1 missed one then was fine.  The fact it didn't linger is encouraging. 

 He missed 6 or 7 more for Covid, which has nothing to do with injuries.  The remaining games were rest games basically due to his shin injury.  He obtained that in high school and basically it has two methods to treat it.  Continue to play and miss the occasional game when it becomes too bothersome.  Or get the surgery and have it fully repaired.  He originally wanted to rest and come right back.  The Pistons pushed for the surgery but left it up to him.  He talked to a few players that had the procedure done and was encouraged, so he got the surgery.  

Missed 18 games as a rookie, missed most of his 2nd season, had some nagging injuries at Oklahoma St. and missed a few games there too. Now he's being "load managed" or whatever after a preseason game in which he looked rough.

I hope like hell that the injuries are behind him but this is becoming a long list of injuries and he's missed a lot of valuable development time as a result so it's not like there aren't reasons to be concerned until he actually proves to stay healthy and on the right track with his overall game. As of now, he's a giant ???

Edited October 18, 2023 by NYLion

[gehringer_2]

On 10/15/2023 at 9:27 PM, buddha said:

and?  

he's missed most of two full seasons.  fot whatever reasons, he's way behind where he should be in terms of games played.

you can play the contrarian card all day, but its a legit worry that he hasnt been playing and its ok for fans to be a bit nervous when he misses even MORE time, no matter what the given reason is.

2020 Draft win shares:

Mobley: 13.7

Greene. 2.5

Cunningham: -0.6

You are what your record says you are until you change it.

[casimir]

19 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

2020 Draft win shares:

Mobley: 13.7

Greene. 2.5

Cunningham: -0.6

You are what your record says you are until you change it.

Looks like MTS morphed over to MTF around the time of the draft.  It'd be fun to pull that thread back up.

[buddha]

2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

2020 Draft win shares:

Mobley: 13.7

Greene. 2.5

Cunningham: -0.6

You are what your record says you are until you change it.

i'd still take cade.  

edit: win shares is a flawed stat.  put mobley on the pistons and his win shares would be considerably lower 

greene is a head case.  pass.

Edited October 18, 2023 by buddha

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

i'd still take cade.  

 

possibly, but it will be interesting to see what Mobley's ceiling is going to be once in his mid twenties when 7 footers often start hitting their stride. Full disclosure, I was hoping for Mobley in that draft. The danger with Cade seemed to be that he would be a 'tweener'. That didn't turn out to be the the problem, instead it's been the injuries, and he still has to shoot better when he does get on the court if he's going to be franchise player.

[1984Echoes]

I especially want to see his 3-point shooting go way up.

That, and health.

[Betrayer]

Cam Thomas had more win shares than Cade too. There were bench players on Cleveland that had more win shares than anyone on the Pistons. So what? It's a silly comparison. Their win shares aren't better because they went out there like prime Magic Johnson when they were just rookies, it's because they were on better teams.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

possibly, but it will be interesting to see what Mobley's ceiling is going to be once in his mid twenties when 7 footers often start hitting their stride. Full disclosure, I was hoping for Mobley in that draft. The danger with Cade seemed to be that he would be a 'tweener'. That didn't turn out to be the the problem, instead it's been the injuries, and he still has to shoot better when he does get on the court if he's going to be franchise player.

I was hoping to trade down and get Mobley plus other assets.  It wasn’t so much about Cunningham.  It was more about opportunity to get better value with a pick at 3 & stuff than just a pick at 1.

And who knows, it may turn out that Cunningham at 1 ends up the correct choice.  Sure would be nice to see Cunningham healthy for a season.

[gehringer_2]

the Cavs won 41 games in two years before the 20 draft, the Piston had won 40. A big piece of why Mobley played on a better team is because he made it better. So sure, let's say outside the draft the Pistons' FO was more incompetent than the Cavs, that's still been cold comfort for the fans.

[buddha]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

the Cavs won 41 games in two years before the 20 draft, the Piston had won 40. A big piece of why Mobley played on a better team is because he made it better. So sure, let's say outside the draft the Pistons' FO was more incompetent than the Cavs, that's still been cold comfort for the fans.

i'm as critical of cade as the next guy - probably moreso- but if he was healthy and was playing with lauri markkanen, caris levert, jarrett allen, darius garland and then donovan mitchell, cade would have a lot more win shares too.

acquiring levert, markkanen and then mitchell along with garland's development was a big reason they won.  mobley was too but he has a surrounding cast that makes sense, unlike detroit.

moreover, mobley needs someone to get him the ball.  if the pistons draft mobley over cade, who gets mobley the ball?  killian hayes and corey joseph?  that alone would decrease any "win share" mobley would have.

my two worries with cade are health and his 3 point shot.  other than that he is coming along nicely.  but shooting 27% from 3 is not going to cut it.

[gehringer_2]

22 minutes ago, buddha said:

mobley needs someone to get him the ball

he's been known to play a little D as well, something the Pistons have also lacked prior to this year but you'd hope that with Cade, Ausar and Duren out there and better fit in the coaches chair, that will change

 

[NYLion]

14 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

possibly, but it will be interesting to see what Mobley's ceiling is going to be once in his mid twenties when 7 footers often start hitting their stride. Full disclosure, I was hoping for Mobley in that draft. The danger with Cade seemed to be that he would be a 'tweener'. That didn't turn out to be the the problem, instead it's been the injuries, and he still has to shoot better when he does get on the court if he's going to be franchise player.

Mobley will never be a lead guy on a team. It's the biggest reason why I didn't want the Pistons to draft him who desperately needed a lead guy. Mobley is a great guy to have when you already have a #1 but he'll never be the alpha #1 on a team.

 

[RandyMarsh]

Not watching the game but judging by the box score Ausar is having a solid game tonight. Halfway through the 4th and he has 18pts on only 8FGA along with 8 boards, 3stls, a block and given his reputation I'd imagine some solid all around defense as well.

[Tigeraholic1]

Great balanced game last night. The rookies looked great. Why are we playing back back PS games? I expect nothing but bubble players in action tonight.

[buddha]

1 hour ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Great balanced game last night. The rookies looked great. Why are we playing back back PS games? I expect nothing but bubble players in action tonight.

because they didnt play a game for a week.

i dont get the load management crap.  these guys are fine tuned athletes in their 20s, they could play a game of basketball every damn day and be fine.