2021/22 Regular Season Thread

[1984Echoes]

I'm not certain what you mean by that question Buddha.

I mean I get that they were all in the same draft and we basically traded Chychrun for Cholo (released) and Hronek (meh)... and maybe you intend that as a joke so, you know, haha...

But that's also water under the bridge so, even though that trade ended up sort of crappy... 

Seriously (even though we screwed up), would you make a play for Chychrun if the Coyotes were to make him available?

I wish we already had him instead of taking Cholo & Hronek but... since we can't...

IMO: I make a play for him. Would they take Hronek (that would be funny...)? Or Veleno? Plus a McIsaac and a couple 2nds? 

I don't know what their asking price is but I believe it will be steep... but... I'm interested. Put him on the top line with Seider.

[buddha]

7 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

I'm not certain what you mean by that question Buddha.

I mean I get that they were all in the same draft and we basically traded Chychrun for Cholo (released) and Hronek (meh)... and maybe you intend that as a joke so, you know, haha...

But that's also water under the bridge so, even though that trade ended up sort of crappy... 

Seriously (even though we screwed up), would you make a play for Chychrun if the Coyotes were to make him available?

I wish we already had him instead of taking Cholo & Hronek but... since we can't...

IMO: I make a play for him. Would they take Hronek (that would be funny...)? Or Veleno? Plus a McIsaac and a couple 2nds? 

I don't know what their asking price is but I believe it will be steep... but... I'm interested. Put him on the top line with Seider.

you're not certain what i mean?  come on!  it was a joke!  you knew exactly what i meant.  lol.

i'm not sure i would give up talent for chychrun.  they have a lot of defensemen in the pipeline, and what they really need is a center.

[buddha]

thoughts on zadina on the top line?

i didnt think he was all that great even though he scored against philly.

[gehringer_2]

3 minutes ago, buddha said:

thoughts on zadina on the top line?

i didnt think he was all that great even though he scored against philly.

correct, Philly is not much of a test. At his best there is still a huge falloff from Bertuzzi on that line to Zadina so you are wasting Larkin's potential to that degree, which is why I'd guess he's not going to be there once Vrana gets back anyway.....

[1984Echoes]

Which may even put Zadina on the trading block...

I'd hate to give up on potential so early just in case the light bulb turns on...

Might depend on what we can get back.

Although his value has to be at a low point right now...

[gehringer_2]

the thing is it doesn't mean much to just get some mediocre level of production when you are playing next to a really good player - almost anyone would do the same. It you can't at least make yourself visible on the ice playing without a star dragging you along, you aren't really very good. Call it Abdelkader syndrome.

[slothfacekilla]

I don't think Chychrun is all that special and thought Zadina did things well in his time on the first line (the Athletic had a good article with videos / gifs of his play) so I'll just stick to my prospect porn:

 

 

 

 

Hanas has 55 pt through 41 games:

Best DY+2 players in WHL at current season

P1/60
Jake Neighbours, 4.72 (STL, 1st round, #26 overall)
Connor McLennon, 4.42 (PHI, 6th round, #178 overall)
Ben King, 4.37
Jackson Berezowski, 4.35
Michal Gut, 4.01
Ridley Fiddler-Schultz, 3.85
Cross Hanas, 3.68 (DET, 2nd round, #55 overall)
Owen Pederson, 3.66
Kyle Crnkovic, 3.56
Jared Davidson 3.49
Ridly Greig, 3.42 (OTT 1st round, #28 overall)

[slothfacekilla]

Oops sent way too soon lol

 

 

 

 

The Swedes!

[lordstanley]

If I’m Connor McDavid after seeing Stafford win a Super Bowl I’d feel like marching into Kenny’s office tomorrow demanding a trade.  Connor hasn’t  even had an Olympics showcase. By this stage of career Crosby had 2 Cups and a golden goal. 

[slothfacekilla]

11 hours ago, lordstanley said:

If I’m Connor McDavid after seeing Stafford win a Super Bowl I’d feel like marching into Kenny’s office tomorrow demanding a trade.  Connor hasn’t  even had an Olympics showcase. By this stage of career Crosby had 2 Cups and a golden goal. 

Had a long talk with my dad yesterday about how glad we are Holland is with another franchise.  He's going to need to work some miracles soon.

[buddha]

if that's what toffoli got from the flames, the wings should get at least that much - if not more - for bertuzzi.  

stupid vaccine rule.

[Hongbit]

43 minutes ago, buddha said:

if that's what toffoli got from the flames, the wings should get at least that much - if not more - for bertuzzi.  

stupid vaccine rule.

Toffoli has played in 3 Cup Finals and won 2.  He’s got 76 playoff games under his belt and has shown he can light the lamp in postseason.    Bert has no postseason experience.  That’s going to be a big differentiator right now.   

[buddha]

1 minute ago, Hongbit said:

Toffoli has played in 3 Cup Finals and won 2.  He’s got 76 playoff games under his belt and has shown he can light the lamp in postseason.    Bert has no postseason experience.  That’s going to be a big differentiator right now.   

bert is built for the playoffs.

mantha got a first and a top line player and he hadnt done squat in the playoffs.

bert has better numbers than toffoli, is younger than toffoli, and has a game that should translate well to the playoffs.  the only downside - and its a huge - is that canada wont let him in the country.  that would depress his market for sure.

i hope they keep bert unless a godfather offer comes along.  all i'm saying is that if toffoli sets the market, bert SHOULD garner a godfather offer.

[lordstanley]

No to trading Bertuzzi. Unless in a package for McDavid 🙂  . Don't need to stay in a cycle of trading players for prospects.

[Hongbit]

Bert is a fine 2nd or 3rd line left winger.  He probably can get a late 1st round from a team in contention.    He’s not super unique and I’d say there are probably 50 other wing across the league that are better.   Mantha is a much more unique player as there just arent as many quality big bodies that can skate.   The power forward is harder to find than a wing that can score 20 goals which is why he got more.   

[buddha]

by almost every advanced  statistical measure, bert is better than mantha.  he scores, he defends, he goes into the corners, he gets back on defense, he is physical and will fight.

i wouldnt trade bert for mantha straight up.  if they offered me vrana and a #1 for bert i dont think i would take it.

if i was a playoff contender looking for a top 6 forward for the playoffs, bert would be at the top of the list.

[gehringer_2]

32 minutes ago, buddha said:

by almost every advanced  statistical measure, bert is better than mantha.  he scores, he defends, he goes into the corners, he gets back on defense, he is physical and will fight.

i wouldnt trade bert for mantha straight up.  if they offered me vrana and a #1 for bert i dont think i would take it.

if i was a playoff contender looking for a top 6 forward for the playoffs, bert would be at the top of the list.

With Mantha you get a nice set of hockey player attributes, with Bert you get a nice hockey player.

No question that based on his physical gifts he has theoretical upside that Betuzzi doesn't, but he also hasn't shown much inclination to achieve it.

Which brings me back to how impressive it is that Sieder actually plays to his size with such seeming ease. There was a play along the boards in the Philly game, not any kind of big deal play but just a little microcosm of what Seider brings: He was in the corner along the boards getting control of the puck and a Philly forechecker was coming at him to hip check him against the boards and roll off the check to try to get possession himself. It was not going to be a big hit or anything, just a solid play that could normally take a guy off the puck, but in a seeming split second Moritz was able to set an edge and shift his weight and just repel the check - the guy just bounced off without moving him. An example of the difference between just having physical attributes and actually playing to them.

Edited February 14, 2022 by gehringer_2

[Hongbit]

46 minutes ago, buddha said:

by almost every advanced  statistical measure, bert is better than mantha.  he scores, he defends, he goes into the corners, he gets back on defense, he is physical and will fight.

i wouldnt trade bert for mantha straight up.  if they offered me vrana and a #1 for bert i dont think i would take it.

if i was a playoff contender looking for a top 6 forward for the playoffs, bert would be at the top of the list.

Bert is better but positional scarcity benefits Mantha in the trade market.

Let’s ignore the vax issue (which I honestly am not sure that you can), if Im building a team then I’d take Bert over Toffoli.   If im a playoff contender looking for a top 6 winger,  I’m taking Toffoli everyday over Bert.  The guy has scored big time goals in the playoffs over a number of years and that is invaluable.  There’s no coulds or shoulds about how he will respond to playoff hockey.  

[Hongbit]

38 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

With Mantha you get a nice set of hockey player attributes, with Bert you get a nice hockey player.

No question that based on his physical gifts he has theoretical upside that Betuzzi doesn't, but he also hasn't shown much inclination to achieve it.

Which brings me back to how impressive it is that Sieder actually plays to his size with such seeming ease. There was a play along the boards in the Philly game, not any kind of big deal play but just a little microcosm of what Seider brings: He was in the corner along the boards getting control of the puck and a Philly forechecker was coming at him to hip check him against the boards and roll off the check to try to get possession himself. It was not going to be a big hit or anything, just a solid play that could normally take a guy off the puck, but in a seeming split second Moritz was able to set an edge and shift his weight and just repel the check - the guy just bounced off without moving him. An example of the difference between just having physical attributes and actually playing to them.

Seider is another level.   He’s going to be one of the top blue liners in the league in very short order.  

[1984Echoes]

3 hours ago, buddha said:

by almost every advanced  statistical measure, bert is better than mantha.  he scores, he defends, he goes into the corners, he gets back on defense, he is physical and will fight.

i wouldnt trade bert for mantha straight up.  if they offered me vrana and a #1 for bert i dont think i would take it.

if i was a playoff contender looking for a top 6 forward for the playoffs, bert would be at the top of the list.

I think that's next year, not this year.

Once Covid Shenanigans no longer count for anything...

[slothfacekilla]

Under 21 SHL scoring leaders:

[Hongbit]

Rough day on Olympic ice as both USA and Canada go down and will leave without a medal.    

17!year old Slovakian LWi Juraj Slafkovsky has been unreal and may give Shane Wright a run for #1 overall pick.  

[buddha]

All your swedes are belong to us.

[1984Echoes]

6 hours ago, buddha said:

All your swedes are belong to us.

Awesome!

[1984Echoes]

7 hours ago, slothfacekilla said:

Under 21 SHL scoring leaders:

But does that list also come with +/- ?

I know it's not perfect...

But I like to see some representation of who's being responsible/ playing defense versus not...