04/27/2023 6:40 pm EDT Baltimore Orioles vs Detroit Tigers

[bobrob2004]

43 minutes ago, tiger2022 said:

I understand your frustration, I would like Hinch gone just because I think he is super shady, but the roster is constructed for failure.  Sure, it's easy to say they should have pinched hit for both of them, but the guys coming off the bench aren't exactly top tier hitters; most of these guys wouldn't have a shot at even being on rosters of the other MLB teams.  A chef can't magically make rotten food into a gourmet dinner.

Yes, they probably lose regardless of how he used his bench.  But why take out a guy with 2 hits and leave someone like Schoop in the whole game?  We can't ignore that Hinch doesn't have any input here.

Why does his lineups constantly look like he is pulling names out of a hat? 

[tiger2022]

I agree 100% about his lineup construction.  Maybe he just feels like it doesn't matter because none of the guys are going to step up and succeed.  

I think with the way teams are constructed with so many relief pitchers and so few bench players kind of hurts the ability to make a lot of moves by the manager.  Also, when Cabrera doesn't play, it really is only 3 guys on the bench.  I think a manager has to just go with the guys he puts in the starting lineup and see what they give him.  

In this instance, I kind of put the blame more on the front office because they constructed such an awful team.

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, tiger2022 said:

I understand your frustration, I would like Hinch gone just because I think he is super shady, but the roster is constructed for failure.  Sure, it's easy to say they should have pinched hit for both of them, but the guys coming off the bench aren't exactly top tier hitters; most of these guys wouldn't have a shot at even being on rosters of the other MLB teams.  A chef can't magically make rotten food into a gourmet dinner.

Who would you like to see replace Hinch?

[tiger2022]

I really don't have any candidates.  I just never got behind him because of the cheating scandal.  

I really don't think there is too much difference between managers.   They are kind of interchangeable.  

 

[Tenacious D]

The Miggy situation is unfortunate, but to continue to single him out is a bit unfair. At least he can blame old age.  What about the rest of the lineup?

[chasfh]

3 hours ago, Tigerbomb13 said:

Since 2017 and through the end of this year, Cabrera will have made $212 million and his total WAR so far is -2.6 in that time. I know it’s been beaten to death about how bad he is, but it’s astounding to think about it this way. 

I posted something along these lines a few years ago, maybe even on the old site, but it's worth an update here.

At the end of 2016, his last decent full season and his fourteenth overall, Miggy's career offensive WAR (oWAR) of 78.2 ranked 20th overall among all players through their first 14 seasons, behind Rickey Henderson and Mike Schmidt, and ahead of Eddie Collins and Mel Ott. These four are all inner-circle Hall of Famers, and Miggy was among them, and at the time it would have seemed fair to assume that Miggy would end his career ready to take his place in that same inner circle.

As of today, April 28, 2023, Miggy's career oWAR of 77.6—yes, his overall career offensive value has actually decreased across the slog of seven years—ranks 45th all time, behind Cal Ripken and Jim Thome, and ahead of Reggie Jackson and Harry Heilmann. Granted, he is still surrounded by Hall of Famers. Just not inner-circle Hall of Famers. These are guys who had to be great hitters to make the Hall of Fame, of course, but when you are discussing the greatest hitters in baseball history, you will mention Rickey and Schmidt fairly quickly, but you probably won't even mention Ripken and Thome at all before you move on to another topic.

Miggy will be a Hall of Famer, and he will be elected on the first ballot, and he will deserve that. But he won't be an inner-circle Hall of Famer. Not anymore. He has firmly played himself out of that possibility.

[chasfh]

29 minutes ago, tiger2022 said:

I really don't have any candidates.  I just never got behind him because of the cheating scandal.  

I really don't think there is too much difference between managers.   They are kind of interchangeable.  

 

If managers don't make any difference, then there's no point in firing him, at least not until he's given a roster built to win and he botches it.

[Tigermojo]

The lineup head scratcher last night was Baddoo following Miggy. I know chances of both of them getting on base are minimal but if they do, Baddoo's speed is completely wasted.

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I posted something along these lines a few years ago, maybe even on the old site, but it's worth an update here.

At the end of 2016, his last decent full season and his fourteenth overall, Miggy's career offensive WAR (oWAR) of 78.2 ranked 20th overall among all players through their first 14 seasons, behind Rickey Henderson and Mike Schmidt, and ahead of Eddie Collins and Mel Ott. These four are all inner-circle Hall of Famers, and Miggy was among them, and at the time it would have seemed fair to assume that Miggy would end his career ready to take his place in that same inner circle.

As of today, April 28, 2023, Miggy's career oWAR of 77.6—yes, his overall career offensive value has actually decreased across the slog of seven years—ranks 45th all time, behind Cal Ripken and Jim Thome, and ahead of Reggie Jackson and Harry Heilmann. Granted, he is still surrounded by Hall of Famers. Just not inner-circle Hall of Famers. These are guys who had to be great hitters to make the Hall of Fame, of course, but when you are discussing the greatest hitters in baseball history, you will mention Rickey and Schmidt fairly quickly, but you probably won't even mention Ripken and Thome at all before you move on to another topic.

Miggy will be a Hall of Famer, and he will be elected on the first ballot, and he will deserve that. But he won't be an inner-circle Hall of Famer. Not anymore. He has firmly played himself out of that possibility.

yes, I have thought about this a lot.  He has gone from being someone on a Hank Aaron/Frank Robinson career path to being Jim Thome/Reggie Jackson.  It's still great company and a great career, but not quite the same.  It's probably not a big deal to most fans, but for someone who loves the history of the game and likes to compare the greats from different eras, it's somewhat disappointing.  

[Tiger337]

 

[chasfh]

**** that guy.

[Tiger337]

2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

**** that guy.

He's not wrong.  

[chasfh]

3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

He's not wrong.  

I know.

Still—**** that guy.

[chasfh]

One of the things I’ve been wondering about recently is how Miggy might be a complete drag on the team. I don’t his performance, which is drag enough—I mean just his 800-pound-gorilla presence. This is a team pushing towards the future, and Miggy is not only a relic of the past—he is a relic of the distant past. I’m wondering whether he has any connection with the other players on this team, most of whom remember him as this heroic icon from when they were little kids. Since he is famously un-mentor-like, I don’t see what he has to offer the young guys on this team aside from taking at bats away from them and giving them outs in return. I will be interested in seeing what happens when he finally does leave—will they miss having the heroic icon in their midst? Or will it be more like a weight lifted off their shoulders and they can finally be their young and energetic selves? I’m not inside the clubhouse so I can’t know. But it does strike me as very plausible.

[Jim Cowan]

I imagine that they all look up to him and feel lucky to be around a Hall of Famer. 

[chasfh]

Maybe, but that itself might be a problem. Maybe having a living legend around you is like having a museum piece that you revere instead of a teammate that you’re equal to. Particularly someone who is closer in age to your parents than to you. I don’t know. I think it’s interesting to contemplate.

[Tiger337]

38 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

I imagine that they all look up to him and feel lucky to be around a Hall of Famer. 

That's what they woud tell you for sure.  Some of them might not believe it, but I think most of them do.  You always hear players talking about how they pick the brains of star players to learn about the game.    

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

That's what they woud tell you for sure.  Some of them might not believe it, but I think most of them do.  You always hear players talking about how they pick the brains of star players to learn about the game.    

It seems like every time the Bally people put a camera on him, he's yukking it up with a different player. And that's good, on the whole.

My main concern are the results... and if things continue to trend the way they are trending, it seems unsustainable. Even if there aren't a ton of options internally.

[tiger2022]

6 hours ago, chasfh said:

If managers don't make any difference, then there's no point in firing him, at least not until he's given a roster built to win and he botches it.

I can admit that I don't like or respect Hinch simply because of the cheating scandal.  That's it.  When he was hired, I seriously considered turning in my fandom card.

I think he should have received a lifetime ban, but as for firing him, I really don't think the team sucks because of him.

Edited April 29, 2023 by tiger2022

[casimir]

13 hours ago, Tigermojo said:

The lineup head scratcher last night was Baddoo following Miggy. I know chances of both of them getting on base are minimal but if they do, Baddoo's speed is completely wasted.

I think that's a big if, so the "risk/reward" is warranted.  Although the only reward seems to be Baddoo shouldn't have Cabrera on the bags in front of him, so I'm not sure that assuming an out is a reward.

[chasfh]

13 hours ago, tiger2022 said:

I can admit that I don't like or respect Hinch simply because of the cheating scandal.  That's it.  When he was hired, I seriously considered turning in my fandom card.

I think he should have received a lifetime ban, but as for firing him, I really don't think the team sucks because of him.

Hinch did not gamble on a game in which he had a duty to perform, which is the only  infraction specified in rule 21(e) that earns it. I think a year exile from the game was sufficient.

I’m just glad we didn’t end up hiring Pedro Grifol. God, what a continuation of the perpetual-rebuild ****show that would have been, if for no other reason than Grifol was probably Al Avila’s preferred candidate, given their 30-year relationship dating back to the 1980s in Miami, and that means they would both probably still be on the job today.

Edited April 29, 2023 by chasfh