2023 NFL Draft As-It-Happens

[Hongbit]

24 minutes ago, RedRamage said:

No one is saying that. People are wondering if perhaps there is a flaw in the scouting staff/FO evaluation process. Obviously we won't know for the next few years and I hear just about everyone saying something to the effect of: "I'll give Holmes the benefit of the doubt right now." Don't make strawman arguments out of people expressing their doubts.

 

52 minutes ago, buddha said:

ok.  so you never question a draft pick ever?  hell man, its a message board and were fans.

i dont get the "were not allowed to question brad holmes" arguments from the same people who question **** all the time.  ESPECIALLY the people who want to fire the whole coaching staff after every time the lions punt the ball.

No.  I don’t question Brad Holmes picks. He earned that from me after the last 2 drafts.  Personally, I’d never draft a RB in the first anymore.  

As for pick 18, It’s one thing for someone to say they didn’t like Campbell or he wasnt a fit for the Lions.   I don’t agree but that’s something to debate.    

I don’t quite understand the I like the player but they could’ve waited to draft him.  What were the Lions supposed to do at 18?  Were they supposed to take another player that was lower on the board.  Should they have just passed their turn until later in the round.  Those both seem like silly options.  I guess they could’ve looked to trade back but  It takes two to trade so that’s not always an option.  You’ve got to trust your scouts and stay true to the board.  

[Motown Bombers]

Seems inevitable at this point. Given Holmes enthusiastic reaction to your replacement and saying you're on the roster for now, it can't be a good feeling. 

 

[Shinzaki]

I liken Gibbs to  nuclear bomb...you can take a nuke at 12

[sagnam]

49 minutes ago, Cruzer1 said:

Corum is elite, that was one play.

And there are highlights against Kent State.  Don’t we want all information?

[buddha]

37 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

 

No.  I don’t question Brad Holmes picks. He earned that from me after the last 2 drafts.  Personally, I’d never draft a RB in the first anymore.  

As for pick 18, It’s one thing for someone to say they didn’t like Campbell or he wasnt a fit for the Lions.   I don’t agree but that’s something to debate.    

I don’t quite understand the I like the player but they could’ve waited to draft him.  What were the Lions supposed to do at 18?  Were they supposed to take another player that was lower on the board.  Should they have just passed their turn until later in the round.  Those both seem like silly options.  I guess they could’ve looked to trade back but  It takes two to trade so that’s not always an option.  You’ve got to trust your scouts and stay true to the board.  

brad holmes has had plenty of dud picks too.  its ok to question brad holmes.  lol.

youve questioned brad holmes plenty of times too.  its a message board full of idiots, its what we do.

[Motown Bombers]

Who are the plenty of duds? It seems the ones who haven't been injured have performed well. 

[Cruzer1]

14 minutes ago, sagnam said:

And there are highlights against Kent State.  Don’t we want all information?

That's kind of like Barry making John Lynch look like a fool on one of his long TD's.

[Jason_R]

1 hour ago, Shinzaki said:

Tyree Wilson broke a foot running...don't want that

Thank you. I’m hearing too much about Wilson being the edge rusher who got away. Charlie Campbell is the guy who picked Gibbs to Detroit yesterday. He also reported that a team in the top 10 took Wilson off it board because his foot surgery was botched.

[Tenacious D]

Just watched Jack Campbell’s presser.  Very likable guy—if he performs, he’ll quickly become a fan favorite.

[MichiganCardinal]

21 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

My own rule is that you can't grade a draft for 3 years. 

 

So - Grading the Detroit Lions 2020 draft

 

Round 1 - Jeff Okudah    D     (I think having Matt Patricia as a coach hurt him a lot,  we only got glimpses of his potential, I think he could bounce back in Atlanta

Round 2 - D'Andre Swift.   B     If it wasn't for injuries, This would be an A+

Round 3 - Julian Okwara    C     He's only shown glimpses, but I wouldn't call him a bust yet. 

Round 3 - Jonah Jackson   A    A very very nice find.  One of Quinn's best picks.   

Round 4 - Logan Stenberg   D   Even for a 4th rounder he hasn't been much.  4 starts.  None of them impressive

Round 5  - Quintez Cephus.  F    Had talent, but couldn't stay health and then he ended his career gambling

Round 5  - Jason Huntley  F   18 rushes in his career,  for the Eagles

Round 6 - John Penisini  D   (couldn't give him an F because he's a 6th rounder and actually played a little)

Round 7 - Jashon Cornell F  Played in 1 game

 

I will give this draft a C+.   Which is great for that regime.   I will always feel bad for Okudah.  He was drafted too high and played for a ****ty coach in a ****ty culture.    Hard to shake that bad start. 

I tried to make a thread for this about a month ago but the site was acting up and I eventually gave up. 

1.3 - Jeff Okudah, CB, Ohio State: F

Admittedly, I think I had this as a D before the trade, I have to fail it now. I agree that having Patricia as his HC put his career behind a proverbial eight-ball and then the Achilles injury never gave him a shot (at least here)... BUT, I also blame Quinn, as I don't think his ceiling was ever that of a Sauce Gardner type player, and that's what you need if you're taking a defensive back in the top five of an NFL draft. We saw the Cardinals this year trade out of #3 after everybody in the world knew they did not want to pick there. I simply don't believe that there was just nothing Quinn could do to trade down. A trade down followed by taking Derrick Brown, Isaiah Simmons, or any of the multiple really good WRs that were taken in this draft would have been much better, and is partly why Quinn is no longer an NFL General Manager.

2.35 - D'Andre Swift, RB, Georgia: C

I might have been at a B- a month ago, but I'm not favorable of this pick either. An often injured back who just shows frustrating flashes of brilliance during his time on the field between injuries. With Jonathan Taylor still on the board too. Yuck.

3.67 - Julian Okwara, EDGE, Notre Dame: C+

Not a fan of this one either, but some credit is given for him still being in the NFL, on the team that drafted him, a few years later - even if it is just as a depth piece. You should get more out of a high 3rd though if you're going to be a successful franchise.

3.75 - Jonah Jackson, OG, Ohio State: A

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. Quinn didn't do much well, but he did leave some quality building blocks for an offensive line that could be top-five in the NFL this season. Jackson was a really good find for the 3rd round.

4.121 - Logan Stenburg, OG, Kentucky: C

I remember when he was taken there were hopes that Jackson and Stenburg would bookend as guards for years to come. Stenburg isn't any good though and is a long shot to make the team this year. Last year we had periods where Vaitai, Kraemer, and Brown were all out at RG, and we chose to start UDFA Kayode Awosika from the Eagles practice squad as our 4th string guard over Stenberg. At the same time, this is a part of the draft where you can't really be that upset over players not working out. He's still on the team after all.

5.166 - Quintez Cephus, WR, Wisconsin: D

This is a hard grade, because Cephus did give us some production as a 5th round pick before gambling his career away. At the same time, he will only be remembered as a Lion for being the idiot who got banned for gambling. Also, a quick recap of the other receivers who were taken in this draft. Henry Ruggs, Jerry Jeudy, CeeDee Lamb, Justin Jefferson, Jalen Reagor, Brandon Aiyuk, Tee Higgins, Michael Pittman Jr. (all available when we took Okudah), Chase Claypool, Van Jefferson (available when we took Swift), KJ Osbourne (available when we took Cephus), and Marquez Callaway (went undrafted). Way to address a need in one of the worst ways possible, Quinny boy.

5.172 - Jason Huntley, RB, New Mexico State: FFFFFFF-

I don't even care how he did on the Eagles and I don't care that this was a 5th round pick. This was possibly the dumbest pick in the Quinn regime. They picked him after picking Swift, with Kerryon Johnson still on the roster, and then when they realized they had too many RBs (because who could have seen that coming), released him after training camp, hoping to pick him up for the practice squad. Except the Eagles sniped him, because of course they did, he was a 5th round pick not an UDFA, you stupid, stupid, dumb, no good idiots. And then after all that they just signed Adrian friggin' Peterson anyway. May as well have just let the clock expire on this pick.

6.197 - John Penisini, DT, Utah: B

Penisini was actually a pretty useful player for a time, and he had an A+ name, so there is that. A 6th rounder still in the league at the end of his rookie deal is a decent find.

7.235 - Jashon Cornell, DT, Ohio State: C-

Cornell was on an NFL field for four (4) regular season snaps, which happens to be one more than the number of full games he was suspended for due to doping (3).

 

Overall: D

Just really, really bad. In context, the 2020 NFL Draft was a pretty resounding dud after Burrow at 1.1, which - along with one useful find in Jonah Jackson - is all that saves this from being an F. Even with the lack of talent available though (except at WR), good GMs get more out of a chance like this picking 3rd than Quinn did. It cost him his job, maybe a little later than it should have. At least the timing lined things up to get a couple guys in here who seem to know what they're doing.

[MichiganCardinal]

42 minutes ago, Jason_R said:

Thank you. I’m hearing too much about Wilson being the edge rusher who got away. Charlie Campbell is the guy who picked Gibbs to Detroit yesterday. He also reported that a team in the top 10 took Wilson off it board because his foot surgery was botched.

The full quote Charlie Campbell got was actually pretty alarming. I wouldn't come near that with a ten-foot pole if my team doctor told me this.

Quote

A shocking late development this week was that some recent medical reports changed the draft status of Texas Tech defensive end Tyree Wilson. One top-10 team that could take a defensive lineman t[o]ld WalterFootball.com that they had dropped Wilson off their draft board. The reason why is that the team feels Wilson's foot injury was not addressed successfully.

"I looked at the X-ray of his foot, and it looks like Frankenstein. It's all mangled," said a director of player personnel. "We dropped him off our board. Our doctors think they're going to have to re-do it. You have to ask, 'How soon are you getting what you think you are getting?' Whatever they did to his foot, it's not right. He could go out and practice and his his foot will start hurting, and then he'll get shut down and they will have to re-do it."

As a result of the injury, that team thinks Wilson could have slide in the top 10. They do not believe Wilson will go as a top-five pick in the 2023 NFL Draft.

 

[MichiganCardinal]

Here we go....

1st day picks sign the autographs but 2nd and 3rd day picks win championships.

[buddha]

1 hour ago, Motown Bombers said:

Who are the plenty of duds? It seems the ones who haven't been injured have performed well. 

melifonwu.  levi.  jamo hasnt done anything but get suspended.  paschal hasnt done anything.

we could go back to the rams and talk about robinson at #2.

look, i like brad holmes.  i think he's done a really good job and i give him the benefit of the doubt but he's not infallible.

and YOU were also bitching last night about these picks just like me.  everybody on this board who is now all "brad holmes is the best and cant be questioned" was bitching up a storm last night.  everyone has calmed down now - me included - but i still question campbell at 18.  and its fair to question holmes, he aint perfect.

[buddha]

1 minute ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Here we go....

1st day picks sign the autographs but 2nd and 3rd day picks win championships.

i cant wait for everyone to like every single one of these picks!  lol.

as an aside, is anyone else sick of kansas city?  i am.

[Motown Bombers]

Just now, buddha said:

melifonwu.  levi.  jamo hasnt done anything but get suspended.  paschal hasnt done anything.

we could go back to the rams and talk about robinson at #2.

look, i like brad holmes.  i think he's done a really good job and i give him the benefit of the doubt but he's not infallible.

and YOU were also bitching last night about these picks just like me.  everybody on this board who is now all "brad holmes is the best and cant be questioned" was bitching up a storm last night.  everyone has calmed down now - me included - but i still question campbell at 18.  and its fair to question holmes, he aint perfect.

LOL having to go back 9 years to a different team to find a dud. 

[MichiganCardinal]

6 minutes ago, buddha said:

melifonwu.  levi.  jamo hasnt done anything but get suspended.  paschal hasnt done anything.

Levi and Iffy are both fair criticisms though I still have hope Iffy turns into solid depth. I don't think anyone from last year but Hutch can be judged yet. Between Jamo, Paschal, and Mitchell it's pretty obvious in hindsight that Holmes was looking towards 2023 and 2024 with that draft.

[buddha]

6 minutes ago, Motown Bombers said:

LOL having to go back 9 years to a different team to find a dud. 

you missed the first paragraph?  sheesh.

[Motown Bombers]

I mean, the whole deal with Williams was that year one would be a lost year and now labeled a dud. 

[buddha]

1 minute ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Levi and Iffy are both fair criticisms though I still have hope Iffy turns into solid depth. I don't think anyone from last year but Hutch can be judged yet. Between Jamo, Paschal, and Mitchell it's pretty obvious in hindsight that Holmes was looking towards 2023 and 2024 with that draft.

iffy and levi have both been bad.  levi was bad when he played.  nobody is going to hit on every pick and even martin mayhew had some good drafts.

[MichiganCardinal]

Bold of Goodell to hype up the boos while standing in front of their token service members.

LOL I forgot the Space Force is a thing.

[Motown Bombers]

Just now, buddha said:

you missed the first paragraph?  sheesh.

I couldn't get past Greg Robinson when Holmes wasn't GM, a different team, and 9 years ago. 

[buddha]

1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said:

I mean, the whole deal with Williams was that year one would be a lost year and now labeled a dud. 

i said he hasnt done anything but get suspended.

do you think every lions pick made by holmes will work out?  if so, why did you bitch so much last night?

[buddha]

1 minute ago, Motown Bombers said:

I couldn't get past Greg Robinson when Holmes wasn't GM, a different team, and 9 years ago. 

so you couldnt get past the second paragraph?  got it.

[MichiganCardinal]

Not a fan of the ergonomics of Pittsburgh's war room.

[Motown Bombers]

1 minute ago, buddha said:

i said he hasnt done anything but get suspended.

do you think every lions pick made by holmes will work out?  if so, why did you bitch so much last night?

I was asking who the duds were and you listed Jameson Williams. Already after one year in which we knew he wasn't really going to play year one.