Investing

[Screwball]

10 minutes ago, 1776 said:

I was in the 3rd grade when JFK was assassinated. Huge impression on me for life. I remember the days as being gray. Even as young as I was then, it was surreal. 
 

 

That's about where I was too. You should also remember the nuclear bomb drills we went through. They told us to get under our desks. Yea, that will help... Wild times, as the threat of nuclear war was was real.

And here we are, 61 years later and wondering about nuclear exchanges. I truly hope the current idiots in charge don't get us all killed before they are done ****ing up the world.

[CMRivdogs]

20 minutes ago, 1776 said:

I was in the 3rd grade when JFK was assassinated. Huge impression on me for life. I remember the days as being gray. Even as young as I was then, it was surreal. 
 

 

Sixth grade here. To make matters worse at the time my parents left that Friday evening for a job interview out of state. We stayed with relatives. I spent that weekend sleeping in their semi finished basement listening to a bunch of unfamiliar mechanical noises, very unsettling.

[Deleterious]

Lions fans were also excited on this day in 1963.  The Ford family purchased the Lions on this day for $6M.  60 years later they would have a good team.

 

[chasfh]

On 11/21/2024 at 8:54 PM, Screwball said:

I kind of equate it to science. And maybe free speech too. Throw all the **** on the table and let's have an adult conversation about the pile in front of us. What is true, and what isn't. Pretty simple IMO. The KISS rule once again applies. And don't hide from what you don't want to hear.

Too bad it doesn't work that way today.

I’m with you on this. I would advise people not to hide in their bubble from what’s going on outside of it. It really does make sense to understand what people who don’t share your beliefs think and feel and believe. It’s valuable information for understanding how things in the world stand.

By “advise”, I don’t mean people have to actively and continually engage with others who have points of view that are actively hostile to them, or to swim in the same waters as people who would consider you to be their enemy, or as vermin, as a matter of course. I don’t even believe people should have to take intellectually-, ethically-, or morally-bankrupt ideas seriously. Everyone is the master of their own information feed and how they respond to it. For now, anyway.

[chasfh]

On 11/22/2024 at 10:52 AM, Deleterious said:

Lions fans were also excited on this day in 1963.  The Ford family purchased the Lions on this day for $6M.  60 years later they would have a good team.

 

And all because of a Ford!

[Screwball]

5 hours ago, chasfh said:

I’m with you on this. I would advise people not to hide in their bubble from what’s going on outside of it. It really does make sense to understand what people who don’t share your beliefs think and feel and believe. It’s valuable information for understanding how things in the world stand.

By “advise”, I don’t mean people have to actively and continually engage with others who have points of view that are actively hostile to them, or to swim in the same waters as people who would consider you to be their enemy, or as vermin, as a matter of course. I don’t even believe people should have to take intellectually-, ethically-, or morally-bankrupt ideas seriously. Everyone is the master of their own information feed and how they respond to it. For now, anyway.

No argument. I don't watch any TV news, or read any of the major publications as my first choice of news. I see what headlines are trending, pick which ones are interesting, then go see what people are saying about it. The "perception" or "narrative" one might say, and how people are reacting. Then pursue how they came to that conclusion.

Many times I find, I think, it is because they have built their own silo, and are happy to live in it. It's human nature to avoid "negative vibes" as "Oddball" of Kelly's Hero's fame said. That's why they can't look in the mirror. Then there is the follow the crowd thing. All interesting stuff.

Then there is the question of what America wants right now, since fighting for years over a bunch of inept, crooked, and bought off assholes who want to **** us next.

It's a big club, and we ain't in it. And we hate each other. Giddy up!

[Deleterious]

Quote

Every three years the Reserve Bank of Australia surveys a representative sample of 1,000 adults about how they pay for things. As the following graph shows, cryptocurrency is making almost no impression as a payments instrument, being used by no more than 2% of adults.

Almost no one uses Bitcoin as currency, new data proves. It’s actually more like gambling

[Tiger337]

On 11/23/2024 at 2:13 PM, chasfh said:

I’m with you on this. I would advise people not to hide in their bubble from what’s going on outside of it. It really does make sense to understand what people who don’t share your beliefs think and feel and believe. It’s valuable information for understanding how things in the world stand.

By “advise”, I don’t mean people have to actively and continually engage with others who have points of view that are actively hostile to them, or to swim in the same waters as people who would consider you to be their enemy, or as vermin, as a matter of course. I don’t even believe people should have to take intellectually-, ethically-, or morally-bankrupt ideas seriously. Everyone is the master of their own information feed and how they respond to it. For now, anyway.

Sure, it's good to know what others are thinking, but hearing Trump and Musk mock people and parrot conspiracy theories doesn't help me learn anything especially when I originally joined Twitter to get baseball news.  

[Tiger337]

48 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

Almost no one uses Bitcoin as currency, new data proves. It’s actually more like gambling

This doesn't surprise me since most things that people buy do not have a cryptocurrency option.  Until they do, people are not going to use it in large numbers.  For me, it is just something that wealthy investors/gamblers are pushing which I view as a red flag.  

[oblong]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

This doesn't surprise me since most things that people buy do not have a cryptocurrency option.  Until they do, people are not going to use it in large numbers.  For me, it is just something that wealthy investors/gamblers are pushing which I view as a red flag.  

Crypto would be normally the kind of thing to set off the rapture/ of the world/Jesus is coming back folks.  They talk about mark of the beast and all of that. It fits right in.  But since those folks have a new cult leader surrounded by Crypto Bros I guess it’s ok. They will go back to JFK Jr is alive stuff. 

[Screwball]

2 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Almost no one uses Bitcoin as currency, new data proves. It’s actually more like gambling

Interesting, but I'm not surprised. Funny, here in Cornhole a little grocery close by has a Bitcoin machine. I have no idea how it works or what it does.

That said, disclosure; I've never followed the cryto stuff ever to any extent. It didn't interest my kind of investing. I really had no care about it. But I do remember you posting about it since maybe 3 boards ago, so I have a few questions since you have been on top of this for a long time.

In the article you posted, it said this;

If Bitcoin’s isn’t used for payments, what use does it have?

Quote

The major attraction – one endorsed by mainstream financial publications – is as a store of value, particularly in times of inflation, because Bitcoin has a hard cap on the number of coins that will ever be “mined”.

I don't care about the first part, but the bold is key. The article talked about the volatility. It has to work that way when there is a hard cap. But traders love it, and probably make a killing. But that's not the deal that matters, maybe... This is where I get curious. Again, from that article;

Quote

In terms of quantity, there are only 21 million Bitcoins released as specified by the ASCII computer file. Therefore, because of an increase in demand, the value will rise which might keep up with the market and prevent inflation in the long run.

I only care about the first part. The rest gives the pundits and idiots in DC something to make themselves look stupid over.

What intrigues me is the OP_RETURN stuff. Is anyone digging into this? Is there a way to read the blockchain, and I know you talked about the blockchain long ago? That could be some wild stuff.

Edited November 25, 2024 by Screwball

[Deleterious]

29 minutes ago, Screwball said:

Interesting, but I'm not surprised. Funny, here in Cornhole a little grocery close by has a Bitcoin machine. I have no idea how it works or what it does.

That said, disclosure; I've never followed the cryto stuff ever to any extent. It didn't interest my kind of investing. I really had no care about it. But I do remember you posting about it since maybe 3 boards ago, so I have a few questions since you have been on top of this for a long time.

In the article you posted, it said this;

If Bitcoin’s isn’t used for payments, what use does it have?

I don't care about the first part, but the bold is key. The article talked about the volatility. It has to work that way when there is a hard cap. But traders love it, and probably make a killing. But that's not the deal that matters, maybe... This is where I get curious. Again, from that article;

I only care about the first part. The rest gives the pundits and idiots in DC something to make themselves look stupid over.

What intrigues me is the OP_RETURN stuff. Is anyone digging into this? Is there a way to read the blockchain, and I know you talked about the blockchain long ago? That could be some wild stuff.

I will try to keep this short and not nerd out.

Bitcoin the coin has no value IMO and this goes for any crypto coin.  I believe the value is the blockchain technology that the coins are built on.  This is mostly theoretical right now and not a lot of real world use.  I also imagine by time we do start to see mainstream uses that it will look very different than it does now.  Par for the course when it comes to emerging technologies.  

We are coming up on 20 million coins mined for Bitcoin and 21 million is the cap.  This doesn't matter honestly since if any coin ever comes close to being used by the mainstream, it will not be Bitcoin.  There are newer coins with better tech behind it that would be much easier to use.  A good example, Bitcoin doesn't have smart contracts.  Most feel Ethereum would be the one to go mainstream as a viable coin if any ever did.  

Anyone can read the blockchain.  That is part of the appeal.  There are websites that let you read it.

https://blockstream.info/

 

[Screwball]

15 minutes ago, Deleterious said:

I will try to keep this short and not nerd out.

Bitcoin the coin has no value IMO and this goes for any crypto coin.  I believe the value is the blockchain technology that the coins are built on.  This is mostly theoretical right now and not a lot of real world use.  I also imagine by time we do start to see mainstream uses that it will look very different than it does now.  Par for the course when it comes to emerging technologies.  

We are coming up on 20 million coins mined for Bitcoin and 21 million is the cap.  This doesn't matter honestly since if any coin ever comes close to being used by the mainstream, it will not be Bitcoin.  There are newer coins with better tech behind it that would be much easier to use.  A good example, Bitcoin doesn't have smart contracts.  Most feel Ethereum would be the one to go mainstream as a viable coin if any ever did.  

Anyone can read the blockchain.  That is part of the appeal.  There are websites that let you read it.

https://blockstream.info/

 

Thanks for this.

I was doing a little investigating. So many angles to the crypto fad. Will it ever replace money, is it a medium for fraud, what exchange rates, does it protect against inflation, it is a good investment, all kinds of things.

I got a kick out of the OP_RETURN stuff but then thought, in these days the spooks would be all over that, or should be. Should be easy to decode and read it one would think. When you think about it, crypto is short for cryptography - code.

I grew up and played baseball with a guy who was a highly intelligent human. He was a walking talking calculator before we ever heard of them. He went to a high dollar college and majored in math. His dad was a professor who was a mathematician and did code breaking before and during the cold war. I've always been fascinated by that kind of stuff.

And thanks for the link. I found a bunch of stuff but didn't know what to trust.

[gehringer_2]

4 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

This doesn't surprise me since most things that people buy do not have a cryptocurrency option.  Until they do, people are not going to use it in large numbers.  For me, it is just something that wealthy investors/gamblers are pushing which I view as a red flag.  

The people that started bitcoin didn't really think it out very well. The thing they wanted the most was for bitcoin not to be tied to some national currency like the dollar, so it couldn't be 'manipulated'. But the problem is that that makes bitcoin a lousy payment vehicle because it's value is too variable - exactly because it is tied to nothing. Everything's price is going to change everyday. They fundamentally misunderstood that the fact the US gov 'manipulates' the value of the dollar so that is as predictable as they can make it (which admittedly is not perfect but still better than anything else) is exactly what makes the dollar desirable as an exchange currency. So don't hold your breath for bitcoin to become a big payment vehicle. We almost had a social meltdown over 5% inflation for a year and a half. Bitcoin bounces around that much in 10 minutes.

There are some cryptos - called 'stable coins' where thy they do peg them to the dollar (or something) to get around that, so then they have no point at all.

All that said, as long as you can find someone to buy it from you for more than you paid for it.....

Edited November 25, 2024 by gehringer_2

[gehringer_2]

16 minutes ago, Screwball said:

Thanks for this.

I was doing a little investigating. So many angles to the crypto fad. Will it ever replace money, is it a medium for fraud, what exchange rates, does it protect against inflation, it is a good investment, all kinds of things.

I got a kick out of the OP_RETURN stuff but then thought, in these days the spooks would be all over that, or should be. Should be easy to decode and read it one would think. When you think about it, crypto is short for cryptography - code.

I grew up and played baseball with a guy who was a highly intelligent human. He was a walking talking calculator before we ever heard of them. He went to a high dollar college and majored in math. His dad was a professor who was a mathematician and did code breaking before and during the cold war. I've always been fascinated by that kind of stuff.

And thanks for the link. I found a bunch of stuff but didn't know what to trust.

Yes the blockkchain is elegant databasing, but again, it turns out to be total overkill for buying a loaf of bread. There is no value in the overhead to recalculate a block chain for 99.99% of the trivial transaction we do. Another complications is transaction reversal. Once you and someone you deal with - say Krogers or the bank or whoever, agree that a transaction had an error, it only takes the agreement of the two of you to reverse that transaction at each end. Not so much with blockchain.

Edited November 25, 2024 by gehringer_2

[Screwball]

5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Yes the blockkchain is elegant databasing, but again, it turns out to be total overkill for buying a loaf of bread. There is no value in the overhead to recalculate a block chain for 99.99% of the trivial transaction we do. Another complications is transaction reversal. Once you and someone you deal with - say Krogers or the bank or whoever, agree that a transaction had an error, it only takes the agreement of the two of you to reverse that transaction at each end. Not so much with blockchain.

I don't know how the transactions work, so I can't speak to this. I'm interested in the coding. Bitcoin transactions can contain a line of code entered by the seller that has nothing to do with the transaction. It is limited in size due to ASCII coding. It's turned into hex to save space. It was around 80 characters, but I think it is now 40, but I could be wrong.

As far as fixing exchange **** ups, and banks... *warning bank rant*

My fault for not catching it, but about a year ago I found about a dozen dual charges on my card from the same place, a local gas station/carry out. I am usually on top of that as I check it all the time, but I missed this. I only buy about 3 things so from the dollar amount I know what I bought. I went though my statement, took screenshots, documented so I could go play phone tag and stupidity with the bankers.

I wasn't disappointed. I started out online with my bank. It took over a half hour to get a person. It took 20 minutes to not find out anything about the first double charge on my statement. I told them I had a bunch of these, so why don't I just send you an email and you can work on it and get back to me. Nope, they don't do that. I told them we are going to be on here for hours doing it this way, and I don't have time. You need to go to your local branch.

OK, so I did. I was promptly told that all they could do is call the same number I did. At that point I gave up. The banks win again, and my fault too. Not worth the hassle.

Then a couple of weeks later, I get an email from this bank, some person at the regional office. Hi, my name is Joe Schmoe, in capital letters no less. I am your personal banker and I'm here to make your experience with X bank the best it can possibly be. How can I help you?

Well, lookie here, an email address. So I spun up a letter explaining everything, and finished with how glad I am he was going to make my experience all it could be. In a nice way of course. Nothing. A month later, I emailed him back and ask why I never heard anything, and my experience has not been much better. Nothing again.

This is where we are.  **** banks.

[Screwball]

Here's another question for Del. On this bank thing above. I had double charges on the same day at the same place, but I couldn't tell what time by my statement. Only on rare occasions did I go there twice in one day, but possible. There were a few that could be, but I wanted to question anyway. A time stamp would prove it. If both transactions were the same time, I was double charged. Different times, then no problem.

Who has access to the time stamps, and am I missing anything? This is my bank debt card. I think they run it as a credit.

[Deleterious]

23 minutes ago, Screwball said:

Here's another question for Del. On this bank thing above. I had double charges on the same day at the same place, but I couldn't tell what time by my statement. Only on rare occasions did I go there twice in one day, but possible. There were a few that could be, but I wanted to question anyway. A time stamp would prove it. If both transactions were the same time, I was double charged. Different times, then no problem.

Who has access to the time stamps, and am I missing anything? This is my bank debt card. I think they run it as a credit.

The store would write the data to the blockchain and the timestamp created then.  

Lets say in this case the timestamps were the same so they double charged you.  That original transaction with the double charge can never be modified.  It is there forever.  So the store would need to write a new transaction give you back half the money.  

Someone compared it to the constitution.  The 18th amendment is still there.  It didn't disappear when the 21st was passed.  The 21st just repealed the 18th, but it's still there.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Screwball said:

Well, lookie here, an email address. So I spun up a letter explaining everything, and finished with how glad I am he was going to make my experience all it could be. In a nice way of course. Nothing. A month later, I emailed him back and ask why I never heard anything, and my experience has not been much better. Nothing again.

This is where we are.  **** banks

The problem in every aspect of 'retail' that has been computerized is system stiffness. If something, anything, happens which was not explicitly anticipated by the programmers, or more often, that is in the SW but no-one is trained on, you're screwed. I've been trying to open an account at a financial firm that will have three owners. Oops, the online form can only enter 2. No, they don't have any rule it can't be three. How do I make it three - we'll play phone tag for at least a week and maybe someone on their end who knows how to do it -  somehow - probably mostly by accident, finally gets pulled into the loop. Then it going to actually take about 10 seconds to do.

Edited November 25, 2024 by gehringer_2

[chasfh]

15 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Almost no one uses Bitcoin as currency, new data proves. It’s actually more like gambling

You don’t say.

I assume the only places crypto is even accepted are on the dark web for illegal or, at best, quasi legal goods and services. I have no idea how people even buy it, and even less idea how people cash out on it. 

[chasfh]

13 hours ago, Screwball said:

Interesting, but I'm not surprised. Funny, here in Cornhole a little grocery close by has a Bitcoin machine. I have no idea how it works or what it does.

I’ve seen these bitcoin “ATMs” in various places as well, and a couple years ago I thought I would give it a spin to buy, like, five dollars or something worth of crypto, and I couldn’t figure out how to buy it or where to put it even if I could buy it. A digital wallet, I presume? Where do you even get one of those? Not at JCPenney or Sears with the other wallets, I’m sure. 😏

Those “ATMs” are probably going to show up as a joke in a Simpsons episode probably sometime this season.

[Screwball]

10 hours ago, Deleterious said:

The store would write the data to the blockchain and the timestamp created then.  

Lets say in this case the timestamps were the same so they double charged you.  That original transaction with the double charge can never be modified.  It is there forever.  So the store would need to write a new transaction give you back half the money.  

Someone compared it to the constitution.  The 18th amendment is still there.  It didn't disappear when the 21st was passed.  The 21st just repealed the 18th, but it's still there.

Thanks. I might not have been clear enough, but this incident had nothing to do with Bitcoin, so no blockchain involved unless you are calling a credit card transaction records blockchain. They may be called that, I don't know, but this was common credit/debit card stuff.

I know the lady who owns the store. Known her for a long time. I went to see her too, as I'm not sure who I should be dealing with all this - her store - or my bank. She gave me the email of her store and I sent her all the information.  I "assumed" she could find the time stamps. But she apparently was too busy to look into this and I never heard anything.

Thanks. What a world we live in.

[Screwball]

9 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

The problem in every aspect of 'retail' that has been computerized is system stiffness. If something, anything, happens which was not explicitly anticipated by the programmers, or more often, that is in the SW but no-one is trained on, you're screwed. I've been trying to open an account at a financial firm that will have three owners. Oops, the online form can only enter 2. No, they don't have any rule it can't be three. How do I make it three - we'll play phone tag for at least a week and maybe someone on their end who knows how to do it -  somehow - probably mostly by accident, finally gets pulled into the loop. Then it going to actually take about 10 seconds to do.

I have never ran across any bank that didn't suck. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[oblong]

25 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I’ve seen these bitcoin “ATMs” in various places as well, and a couple years ago I thought I would give it a spin to buy, like, five dollars or something worth of crypto, and I couldn’t figure out how to buy it or where to put it even if I could buy it. A digital wallet, I presume? Where do you even get one of those? Not at JCPenney or Sears with the other wallets, I’m sure. 😏

Those “ATMs” are probably going to show up as a joke in a Simpsons episode probably sometime this season.

It makes me think of those digital products, I already forgot their name, that were around a few years ago.  The Tigers gave me some as "collectibles" for things like Miggy's 3000th hit.  I saw it online, then after that I have no idea where it is or what I can do with it.  I have some digital collectable that is of no use to me or anyone else.    

[Edman85]

21 minutes ago, oblong said:

It makes me think of those digital products, I already forgot their name, that were around a few years ago.  The Tigers gave me some as "collectibles" for things like Miggy's 3000th hit.  I saw it online, then after that I have no idea where it is or what I can do with it.  I have some digital collectable that is of no use to me or anyone else.    

Nft