05/20/2023 4:05pm EDT Detroit Tigers vs Washington Nationals

[Jim Cowan]

Haase's power has vanished.  29 hits, only 6 for extra bases.

[clark1mt]

55 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

The Tigers haven’t been within a game of .500 since being 2-3 the first week of the season. This is the 6th time since then that they’ve been 2 games under trying to get back to a game under - lost the first 5 times. 

Perfect record intact.

[casimir]

13 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

5 innings and 3 runs from Faedo, that's about what would be expected. 

Yes.  So I don't know if this is a byproduct of having minor league starting pitchers (or at least any of the potential major league call ups) not go far at all in games.  Or maybe quite simply this is just what he is.  Probably moreso the latter than the former.  Either way, I think its a good illustration of how tenuous the starting pitching depth is right now, and really, for the next few months at least.

[mtutiger]

2 minutes ago, casimir said:

Yes.  So I don't know if this is a byproduct of having minor league starting pitchers (or at least any of the potential major league call ups) not go far at all in games.  Or maybe quite simply this is just what he is.  Probably moreso the latter than the former.  Either way, I think its a good illustration of how tenuous the starting pitching depth is right now, and really, for the next few months at least.

I mean, 5 IP, 3 runs is pretty average... there are teams out there, even purportedly good ones, who would love to have depth starters who could consistently provide that 

[casimir]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

I mean, 5 IP, 3 runs is pretty average... there are teams out there, even purportedly good ones, who would love to have depth starters who could consistently provide that 

Disagree.  That’s a 5.40 ERA.  MLB average is around 4.50.  That might be splitting hairs, but again, each effective inning thrown by the rotation takes the burden off of the bullpen.  Maybe the outing is good for a minor league call up, and that’s fine.  The problem for the Tigers is who would be the next call up if/when that is needed?

Hinch and Fetter have been pretty good with the bullpen.  But honestly how comfortable is the bullpen situation outside of Foley and Lange?

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

Disagree.  That’s a 5.40 ERA.  MLB average is around 4.50.  That might be splitting hairs, but again, each effective inning thrown by the rotation takes the burden off of the bullpen.  Maybe the outing is good for a minor league call up, and that’s fine.  The problem for the Tigers is who would be the next call up if/when that is needed?

Hinch and Fetter have been pretty good with the bullpen.  But honestly how comfortable is the bullpen situation outside of Foley and Lange?

If you are an 80 win team and you run 5 starters out there at 2 of your regulars are probably going to have below league average ERAs.

I don't know if he can get 'there', but Faedo is not far away - his slider is OK, it's his FB that needed a little help I think. He has some life but not quite enough - he gets lots of foul balls and locates it for CS decently but doesn't get any whiffs on it. There might be a tweak in there that gets him over the top - or maybe not, or his command could still sharpen with more IP,  but he has a decent arm and reasonable control so there is something there for them to keep working on. You'd say he's getting a little old to have much upside left, but between the surgeries and reworking his delivery  since then I'm OK with them giving him some more rope. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by gehringer_2

[chasfh]

The average start in the AL, among a mix of veterans and neophytes, is yielding an average of 2.8 runs in 5.3 innings, so, pretty close. As an assessment of Faedo’s outing yesterday, it’s fair to say he was right around the average start—so, not at all awful. The perception of ongoing effectiveness exists in the averages, though. Three runs in five innings is not much worse in an isolated case, but as an ongoing average, it’s definitely subpar.

[Dtrain72]

Sure, Feado gave up 3 in 5, but let's not whistle past the graveyard of the offensive blackhole for 8 straight innings, with Miggy right there in the middle of it🤷‍♂️

[gehringer_2]

also in retrospect, if I was going to give Greene a day off it would have been against Corbin rather than Hill. A power slider is tougher from the other side than 'old and crafty'. Not that one bat would have made any difference against Hill that night. Or maybe letting Greene face Corbin was done as a learning day - with Hinch who knows what he's up to?

[Dan Gilmore]

Re Faedo

[casimir]

8 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

If you are an 80 win team and you run 5 starters out there at 2 of your regulars are probably going to have below league average ERAs.

I don't know if he can get 'there', but Faedo is not far away - his slider is OK, it's his FB that needed a little help I think. He has some life but not quite enough - he gets lots of foul balls and locates it for CS decently but doesn't get any whiffs on it. There might be a tweak in there that gets him over the top - or maybe not, or his command could still sharpen with more IP,  but he has a decent arm and reasonable control so there is something there for them to keep working on. You'd say he's getting a little old to have much upside left, but between the surgeries and reworking his delivery  since then I'm OK with them giving him some more rope. 

Oh, I’m fine with giving him more rope.  I think part of his issue is that he’s still building stamina as he didn’t go too deep down in Toledo.

Here’s part of the problem for the Tigers, though.  They’re already dabbling into the 7th and 8th SPs and ain’t much more available.  The outing he tossed might be good for an 7th/8th SP, but it’s certainly not league average.  And then tack on Wentz struggling again today.  There’s nobody in Toledo worthy of calling up.  If one of the current SPs has to miss a start or, God forbid, plural starts, they’re probably going to have to see what Randy Wolf is doing these days.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

They’re already dabbling into the 7th and 8th SPs and ain’t much more available. 

yup - Manning and Turnbull down puts you exactly at starter #7. And Manning's 4-6wk toe has turned into mininum 8. Sounds like we may see Skubal before we see Manning or Turnbull, and he will be rusty.

[mtutiger]

13 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

yup - Manning and Turnbull down puts you exactly at starter #7. And Manning's 4-6wk toe has turned into mininum 8. Sounds like we may see Skubal before we see Manning or Turnbull, and he will be rusty.

I guess my overall gripe about the discussion with the starting pitching centers around the term "depth" - I still don't think they came into this season with any less "depth" than most other organizations do. The problem is that they are currently in the middle of using that depth, not only because of injuries but also because of bad performances (ie. Turnbull, possibly Joey W. coming up)

That said, Manning and Skubal will be back at some point, and maybe Turnbull will come back and perform a little better than he did prior as well.  They are just gonna have to weather the storm for a bit, and I don't think that makes the Tigers unique compared to other orgs.