Summer 2023 Off-Season Thread

[gehringer_2]

12 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said:

I largely agree with you here but this was also right after Rasmussen's season ending injury I think, and that was a huge blow to the team.  I hope he picks up next season where he left off preinjury as he does a lot of positive things for the team and would be a huge boost to get back.  He isn't going to take on the Sens all by himself but the Wings definitely missed him.  Hopefully him + some graduating prospects can accelerate their timeline a bit.

after Ras I think they are still about of 5 players short, at least 1 D and 3 or 4 forwards. If Edvinsson is the D guy, and Solderblom is one of the forwards, they still need to come up with 3 more at least average NHL forwards either by promotion or purchase.

[buddha]

13 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

after Ras I think they are still about of 5 players short, at least 1 D and 3 or 4 forwards. If Edvinsson is the D guy, and Solderblom is one of the forwards, they still need to come up with 3 more at least average NHL forwards either by promotion or purchase.

what struck me was how physically dominated their defense was.  they couldnt get the puck out of the zone.  they dominated walman and really made a point to go after him physically.  he couldnt handle it and seider didnt help.

ras would have helped that, but he's only one guy.  they need to get bigger and stronger on defense.  seider being another year older will help that, but edvinsson isnt likely to next year.  he's big, but he's young and doesnt appear to be as physical as seider.  severson would have helped.  i wouldnt be surprised if they pay gudas this offseason for that reason.

im sure that's why they brought in chairot, to help with the physicalness.  unfortunately he's still chairot and makes too many mistakes.

as for up front, they need so so much still.  theyre small and not physical at all other than ras (now that they've lost bert, who wasnt particularly big but was very physical).  raymond is tiny.  zadina is small.  berggren isnt physical.

that's why i think this year is another rebuild year and why i think a trade that gets them michkov - a guy who is most likely 3 years away - is very intriguing.  otoh, i can see the virtue in using two top picks to get two bigger, physical forwards or puck moving defensemen and continuing to bank depth in the hopes of becoming carolina or seattle.

but even those teams have top 3 players on their roster whereas we dont.

[buddha]

i didnt think soderblum was physical at all.  but it took ras a few years to figure it out, maybe soderblum can overcome his skating deficincies and figure it out too?

hope so.  i'm more interested in mazur.  he looks like the direct type of forward they need.  lombardi looks like a raymond close (only faster).  im really intrigued by him.

theyre still a couple years away from being where buffalo is now, imo.  

[buddha]

and to continue my thoughts....lets remember that we were one of the worst teams in nhl history just a few years ago, with a bottom of the league farm system.  and have had negative lottery luck.

we had almost nothing and in a few short years were sniffing a playoff spot late in the season.  that's a decent result when you look at other teams like ottawa and buffalo and see how long its been for them.

my only quibble with yzerman was spending last year.  the team wasnt ready and would have been better off in the long run with a top 5 pick this year.

[gehringer_2]

15 minutes ago, buddha said:

what struck me was how physically dominated their defense was. 

agree  - though not as bad as the couple of previous years. But I saw it a little differently  - to me the deficit was as much in the forward's lack of size,  strength, tenacity in their own zone. I though blue line upgrades have been real and last year's D men played better down near the net and red line when the play was down there than previous versions, but they usually got less than zero usefull support from their fowards out near the blue line. You can put Lidstom and Konstantinov on D together and if you have 3 useless forwards out there with them your team still can't play much D  5 on 2.

Edited June 16, 2023 by gehringer_2

[lordstanley]

59 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

You can put Lidstom and Konstantinov on D together and if you have 3 useless forwards out there with them your team still can't play much D  5 on 2.

Speaking of Konstantinov…

 

[lordstanley]

Wow, this is a big money buyout. What a disappointing career OEL has ended up having.

 

 

[slothfacekilla]

I remember being very confused about that trade for Vancouver.  Garland is a solid player and they were able to dump some overpaid players, but the players they gave up all only had one year left on their contracts I think.  OEL had been pretty bad in Arizona already and that contract was ugly.  Giving up 9th overall to make it happen was a real head scratcher for me.

[Shinzaki]

Depending on the $$$ and the return...I could  be a yes on Karlsson.

[slothfacekilla]

 

I wonder how true this is or if it is the other teams negotiating via the media.  I would be shocked if they couldn't get Beggren over Zadina in this scenario (or didn't want that).

Edited June 20, 2023 by slothfacekilla

[lordstanley]

1 minute ago, slothfacekilla said:

 

I wonder how true this is or if it is the other teams negotiating via the media.  I would be shocked if they couldn't get Beggren over Zadina in this scenario (or didn't want that).

Hell, I'd give them Berggren AND Zadina.

[lordstanley]

An hour press conference with Yzerman today

I haven't found one consolidated thread of key takeaways yet, but here are some from Jeff Riger.

 

[slothfacekilla]

1 hour ago, lordstanley said:

Hell, I'd give them Berggren AND Zadina.

Same here lol

[buddha]

if he will only sign with detroit or dallas (which i find hard to believe), then detroit is the only team that can trade for him because it has the cap space and dallas (right now) does not.

[gehringer_2]

Quote

I don’t anticipate moving the 9th pick”  He expects to use the 17th pick as well.

Sounds like they've identified some targets in the draft.

[slothfacekilla]

2 hours ago, buddha said:

if he will only sign with detroit or dallas (which i find hard to believe), then detroit is the only team that can trade for him because it has the cap space and dallas (right now) does not.

The rumor I've seen is that only Detroit and Nashville from his list have cap space for him, but who knows how accurate the info is as far as teams approved.

[buddha]

10 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said:

The rumor I've seen is that only Detroit and Nashville from his list have cap space for him, but who knows how accurate the info is as far as teams approved.

right!  ive heard similar stuff.  but teams can move money around to get him if they want.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

On 6/16/2023 at 3:00 PM, gehringer_2 said:

after Ras I think they are still about of 5 players short, at least 1 D and 3 or 4 forwards. If Edvinsson is the D guy, and Solderblom is one of the forwards, they still need to come up with 3 more at least average NHL forwards either by promotion or purchase.

They don't have a #1 centre or a #1 winger right now capable of being their 85-90+ points a season guy and they need at least one of those. They also need another player capable of being between 75-85 points per season as well. I get that Vegas just won the Cup without having a guy north of 70 points on their team. But their defensive approach, a throwback to the NJ Devils days of the 1990s, seems like the exception. Though maybe that's how we need to proceed too and just build a defensive juggernaut with superb blueline play and goaltending.

However, when you look at many of the top regular season and playoff teams from this past year, outside of Vegas, they  had at least two players north of 70 points. Edmonton had 3 players (McDavid, Draisaitl, Nugent-Hopkins), Tampa had 3 (Kucherov, Stamkos, Point), Colorado (McKinnon and Rantanen), Dallas had 4 (Robertson, Benn, Pavelski, Hintz), Florida had 2 (Tkachuck and Barkov).

I like Larkin, and we've beat this discussion to death as fans, but it can't be understated that they need a #1 centre who is capable of crossing the 85-90 point mark on a consistent basis. We simply need more scoring at the position or at least to have him paired with an elite goal scorer where he can be more of a playmaker and distributor to get more assists. They also need a player at the wing capable of crossing the 75-80 point scoring mark on a consistent basis. And probably another winger who is either a pure goal scorer and is going to net you 30-35 goals per season or is capable of being between 55-60 points as well. Without more playmaking and ultimately scoring ability, this team will be stuck hovering around the .500 or .550 win mark it feels like.

When you look up our scoring deficit, goals and assists, and compare it to other teams it is really glaring. We scored 237 goals, which was 9th worst in the league and we were far closer to the Blackhawks and Ducks at the bottom than we were to the Oilers and Bruins at the top. The top teams are scoring north of 280 goals. Same thing with assists, where we were tied for 11th worst in the league with San Jose. We had 403 total assists and many of the top teams had north of 470-480. When you add those numbers up, goals and assists, we're trying to make up for 100-110+ points in a season.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Mr.TaterSalad

[Shinzaki]

I think Larkin is a good enough 1C to win...if they draft a guy like Danielson (who I hope they draft), I would not be surprised to see him eventually be the 1C.  We have an immediate and future need for a 2nd pair RHD.  Be great to get Karlsson without surrendering significant draft capital and getting some $$$ retained by SJ  while drafting a RHD like Bonk at 17.  If no Karlsson..there's a number of RHD stop gaps available

We need more scoring up front...getting DeBrincat (the Chicago version) would be a huge help. Copp,  Perron and Kubalik are OK...but they aren't the kind of dynamic threats we need. 

Raymond should give them more...  he needs a bounce back year.

Give me the three D's...Danielson, DeBrincat and Pierre Dubois and we're looking good at F.  I would give up a lot if Winnipeg is open to moving on from DuBois

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Shinzaki said:

I think Larkin is a good enough 1C to win

He's is a great sniper from anywhere in close but I'd rate him primarily as a facilitator, and he's pretty much never had more than one 1st class line-mate to play with. He was with Bert through one good season of his but Larkin's own health was up and down that year.

Edited June 21, 2023 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

1 hour ago, Shinzaki said:

I think Larkin is a good enough 1C to win...if they draft a guy like Danielson (who I hope they draft), I would not be surprised to see him eventually be the 1C.  We have an immediate and future need for a 2nd pair RHD.  Be great to get Karlsson without surrendering significant draft capital and getting some $$$ retained by SJ  while drafting a RHD like Bonk at 17.  If no Karlsson..there's a number of RHD stop gaps available

We need more scoring up front...getting DeBrincat (the Chicago version) would be a huge help. Copp,  Perron and Kubalik are OK...but they aren't the kind of dynamic threats we need. 

Raymond should give them more...  he needs a bounce back year.

Give me the three D's...Danielson, DeBrincat and Pierre Dubois and we're looking good at F.  I would give up a lot if Winnipeg is open to moving on from DuBois

what are you going to trade to get debtincat and dubois?  

[Shinzaki]

I'm a fan...not my job to do anything but create fantastic scenarios.

I'll bet Debrincat comes cheaply...Dubois..I Imagine..would take something involving top NHL ready prospects like Edvinsson/ Wallinder/ Kasper and picks.  He cost the Jets two top 6 F's and a pick a few years ago.  But his value could be diminished as he's an RFA too...

Maybe he's a you poison pill an offer sheet to 

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by Shinzaki

[lordstanley]

Weird HHOF election results. 
Barasso and Vernon and Turgeon got in, but no Mogilny or Zetterberg
I do think Hank is only borderline but same with the ones who made it. 
 

 

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by lordstanley

[buddha]

i always thought vernon was just above average.  kind of like ozzie.

[gehringer_2]

7 minutes ago, buddha said:

i always thought vernon was just above average.  kind of like ozzie.

yeah - wouldn't have gotten my vote.