06/04/2023 2:10pm EDT Detroit Tigers vs Chicago White Sox

[SoCalTiger]

ouch. Lange's trade statistics just took a hit. sweeps really hurt. On the the city of Brotherly Love and let's hope we find some.

Edited June 4, 2023 by SoCalTiger

[SoCalTiger]

Just now, SoCalTiger said:

ouch. Lange's trade statistics just took a hit. sweeps really hurt. On to the the city of Brotherly Love and let's hope we find some.

 

[chasfh]

8 minutes ago, romad1 said:

This offense gives me offense.

That really the crux of this biscuit. I don't think Lange deserves the most criticism for the loss. I think lack of offense is the culprit in general. That's a shame because who knows how good this particular staff would look with even an average offense. But we are still dealing with what is mostly the dregs left over from the previous regime. It was never going to be all fixed by now.

[mtutiger]

1 minute ago, chasfh said:

That really the crux of this biscuit. I don't think Lange deserves the most criticism for the loss. I think lack of offense is the culprit in general. That's a shame because who knows how good this particular staff would look with even an average offense. But we are still dealing with what is mostly the dregs left over from the previous regime. It was never going to be all fixed by now.

Really the same as yesterday as well. Sure, Cisnero was Cisnero, but if you cannot put up a major league effort at the plate, you aren't going to win many ballgames.

[gehringer_2]

In scoring 3 runs total in three games in warm summer weather in a band box like WhoseverRate Field, the Tigers met quite a standard in offensive futility.

Edited June 4, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Sports_Freak]

Too bad tomorrow isn't an off day. Hinch could have these inept players running laps until they dropped. Then walk away....it's hopeless.

[Sports_Freak]

7 minutes ago, chasfh said:

That really the crux of this biscuit. I don't think Lange deserves the most criticism for the loss. I think lack of offense is the culprit in general. That's a shame because who knows how good this particular staff would look with even an average offense. But we are still dealing with what is mostly the dregs left over from the previous regime. It was never going to be all fixed by now.

They probably could have played multiple extra innings and the Tigers wouldn't have scored. Just glad Lange wasn't trying to protect a lead.

[Tenacious D]

12 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Could there be a different reliever of the month in June? 

Meh - Lange had a bad day - but who knows, if they had scored a couple of runs and he came in not having to work so fine maybe he doesn't walk anyone.

There aren't many times I'm going to fault the pitching in a loss when we scored 2 or less.

Bound to happen.  Seems like we are riding Foley and Lange quite a bit because our offense doesn’t score enough runs to get a lead, or any cushion that doesn’t require them to pitch.

[Jim Cowan]

I don't mind using Lange there.  Use your best guy when it matters the most.

[gehringer_2]

8 minutes ago, chasfh said:

That really the crux of this biscuit. I don't think Lange deserves the most criticism for the loss. I think lack of offense is the culprit in general. That's a shame because who knows how good this particular staff would look with even an average offense. But we are still dealing with what is mostly the dregs left over from the previous regime. It was never going to be all fixed by now.

And offensive production from the IF is just making the Paredes move burn all the more. 811 OPS.  When you know you could have been be better if you had just done nothing it's all the more frustrating.

[Tigeraholic1]

16 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Disagree. I believe this was a game we really needed to win, so I agree with managing for today rather than managing for the season. In a case like that, you bring in your best man in your highest-leverage situation, and leverage does not get any higher than this. I don't believe this was the time for Tony La Russa-style push-button bullpen management, where the "closer" comes in only in a save situation. It just so happened it didn't work out this time.

I don't think today hurts Lange's trade value, if he's made available on the block.

Agree on all that. It’s just, Lange is still developing. Mario Rivera? Yeah, you bring him in he knows the situation and adjusts to it. Just a lot of pressure from a new angle he is not geared to at the moment. No excuse though.

[chasfh]

4 minutes ago, Tigeraholic1 said:

Agree on all that. It’s just, Lange is still developing. Mario Rivera? Yeah, you bring him in he knows the situation and adjusts to it. Just a lot of pressure from a new angle he is not geared to at the moment. No excuse though.

You could reasonably say Lange is still developing, but on the other hand, he is 27 years old now, so, not sure how much more future we can expect to develop in him. Plus, as we all know, relievers are notoriously flaky from year to year, so it shouldn't be a surprise if this season ends up being the high point of his career.

[kdog]

A roster with no top end talent and no floor raisers. Just a bunch of bad hitters. And they have no answers in Toledo who are even replacement level.

[Tiger337]

46 minutes ago, chasfh said:

You could reasonably say Lange is still developing, but on the other hand, he is 27 years old now, so, not sure how much more future we can expect to develop in him. Plus, as we all know, relievers are notoriously flaky from year to year, so it shouldn't be a surprise if this season ends up being the high point of his career.

He is only 25, but everything else you say applies.  I'd say he is pretty well developed already and is a good reliever, but he's a reliever.  I think he's a good trade candidate.  I have seem some say they would never trade a good pitcher with four years of control remaining, but years of control seems pretty irrelevent for relievers.  

[chasfh]

4 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

He is only 25, but everything else you say applies.  I'd say he is pretty well developed already and is a good reliever, but he's a reliever.  I think he's a good trade candidate.  I have seem some say they would never trade a good pitcher with four years of control remaining, but years of control seems pretty irrelevent for relievers.  

I could see him unlocking a change-of-scenery guy like Jo Adell, who’s killing it at AAA but inexplicably seems blocked in Anaheim.

[SoCalTiger]

32 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

He is only 25, but everything else you say applies.  I'd say he is pretty well developed already and is a good reliever, but he's a reliever.  I think he's a good trade candidate.  I have seem some say they would never trade a good pitcher with four years of control remaining, but years of control seems pretty irrelevent for relievers.  

He's as good as gone unless he nose dives. Either at the trade deadline or off season. Maybe Boyd-Lorenzen and EROD also but the latter probably not due to injury and perhaps he doesn't opt out for the same reason...a chance to be Jordan Zimmerman II..hurt all the time. Yes sweeps make me a tad pessimistic..or truthful ?

[Sports_Freak]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

He is only 25, but everything else you say applies.  I'd say he is pretty well developed already and is a good reliever, but he's a reliever.  I think he's a good trade candidate.  I have seem some say they would never trade a good pitcher with four years of control remaining, but years of control seems pretty irrelevent for relievers.  

I agree. But....it should also be for a very good return. Needs? A RH power hitting OFer. A 2nd baseman. A 3rd baseman. Young and cheap talent.