chasfh Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 6 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Are there a lot of contenders who aren't totally solid at third base at the moment? Phillies, Angels, Yankees, Brewers, Cubs, Marlins could all probably use two months of help at third base for a playoff push. Maybe not the Mets so much, since they are abjectly collapsing. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him go back to the Cubs, since he’s a devil they know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 10 minutes ago, buddha said: i'm just here to watch chas type and pat himself on the back at the same time. Well, if I don’t do it, who else will! 😅 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, chasfh said: Phillies, Angels, Yankees, Brewers, Cubs, Marlins could all probably use two months of help at third base for a playoff push. Maybe not the Mets so much, since they are abjectly collapsing. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him go back to the Cubs, since he’s a devil they know. Cubs seem like the best fit to me as well, but I'd be surprised if there was any sort of bidding war for his services... even among some of the teams listed, it's not clear that Jeimer is that significant of an upgrade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 (edited) Regarding incentives, I honestly don't know how they work when somebody is traded mid-season. My guess is the team the player plays for when they hit the incentives are on the hook. So in the case of Candelario, the Nationals have already paid $400K of his potential $1M in performance incentives. If traded today, the other team would be on the hook for the other $600K if he hits them. Edited July 1, 2023 by Edman85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Edman85 said: Regarding incentives, I honestly don't know how they work when somebody is traded mid-season. My guess is the team the player plays for when they hit the incentives are on the hook. So in the case of Candelario, the Nationals have already paid $400K of his potential $1M in performance incentives. If traded today, the other team would be on the hook for the other $600K if he hits them. I think so, too, since when a contract gets traded, the acquiring team just assumes the contract unless other arrangements are made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 6 hours ago, chasfh said: Well, if I don’t do it, who else will! 😅 You took that well. 😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 So with Skubal, Rodriguez and Faedo all coming back, we'll have a SP to trade. Rodriguez? Is it legal to talk to him (or his agent) to find out if they're going to opt out for sure? It sure would be nice to have some SP depth for the next injury. And I hear Mize may be back in September? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 8 hours ago, chasfh said: I might be the only person here who thought that $7 million would not have been an overpay for Jeimer, because I was thinking of it in terms of paying him for the season he was projected to have coming up, which was more than one win by the lowest estimates, rather than paying him for the season he just had, for which he should have been paying us. I also may have been the only person who thought that the low end projections of slightly more than a single win was really low, that he would probably exceed that that at least half a win, and that even if not, the cost of being wrong would have been pretty minimal, and not close to being ruinous of our plans to rebuild the organization. IOW, I thought it would have been a low risk/high reward sign. But then, I see how other folks could look at his 2022 and think he was done done, too. Dude... I was so on keeping Candy this offseason... I was right there with you... I was pegging him at 3.5-ish WAR and I think you had run calc's on maybe 2-War? that said he was absolutely worth the resign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said: So with Skubal, Rodriguez and Faedo all coming back, we'll have a SP to trade. Rodriguez? Is it legal to talk to him (or his agent) to find out if they're going to opt out for sure? It sure would be nice to have some SP depth for the next injury. And I hear Mize may be back in September? We can either buy out his option or... if he is not open to that then make the assumption that he will opt out. Actually, I'm not actually certain we could do that... it just seems logical. I'm not certain what's in the current operating agreement. He may only be keeping his options "open" and might just as well opt in but... if we can't buy out his option then as an Org I would think we have to operate under the assumption that he IS going to opt out and then we would need to put him on the trade market... IMO. I wouldn't mind keeping him either... if we can offer $10 mill (whatever gets him from current annual salary to... happiness...) to buy out his option and he is agreeable to that then... That would be my 1st choice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 20 hours ago, Edman85 said: Also, am I crazy for saying Lorenzen has been more valuable than Jeimer this year? And likely should fetch more in the trade market if his arm stays in tact another few weeks. Well, that’s an interesting question. Lorenzen has been the only reliable starting pitcher on the matrix of health and results. The offense has stunk, but Candelario would be only 1/9of the lineup. As far as which could fetch more on the trade market, we just might well see that answer in the next month. But I contend that there was room for both salaries on the roster this season to begin with. If there wasn’t, then someone is lying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 16 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: We can either buy out his option or... if he is not open to that then make the assumption that he will opt out. Actually, I'm not actually certain we could do that... it just seems logical. I'm not certain what's in the current operating agreement. He may only be keeping his options "open" and might just as well opt in but... if we can't buy out his option then as an Org I would think we have to operate under the assumption that he IS going to opt out and then we would need to put him on the trade market... IMO. I wouldn't mind keeping him either... if we can offer $10 mill (whatever gets him from current annual salary to... happiness...) to buy out his option and he is agreeable to that then... That would be my 1st choice. I agree. If he wants to opt out, trade him for whatever we can get. Harris probably wants him to opt out to save the money. Miggy, Schoop and Rodriguez off the books would make for a cheap payroll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 51 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Dude... I was so on keeping Candy this offseason... I was right there with you... I was pegging him at 3.5-ish WAR and I think you had run calc's on maybe 2-War? that said he was absolutely worth the resign. I was too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 45 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I was too. Not to steal Chas's thunder... I remember him strongly making the point that even at the very low end of his expected WAR that his expected salary (from arbitration) would actually be an underpay... I certainly agreed with that as projecting him at 1-ish WAR (IMO) was ridiculous... but I get it... because of 2022. But I think it was the 3 of us politely requesting the Tigers to hold onto Candy. Outside of us... I think there was a strong inclination to dump him. If memory serves that is... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said: I agree. If he wants to opt out, trade him for whatever we can get. Harris probably wants him to opt out to save the money. Miggy, Schoop and Rodriguez off the books would make for a cheap payroll. I don't think we need Eduardo to opt out for a cheap payroll. He's paid extremely low for an effective upper echelon starter. The only reason his salary is currently aligned to his performance is due to injuries or related. He's still a huge bargain. Schoop and Miggy leaving the roster will drop our payroll significantly... $50-55-ish Mill? No reason to look for any further savings. Time to figure out where to invest. And to me, that means buying out Eduardo's option if indeed that is an... option. Holding onto him is first choice to me... If we are able to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Not to steal Chas's thunder... I remember him strongly making the point that even at the very low end of his expected WAR that his expected salary (from arbitration) would actually be an underpay... I certainly agreed with that as projecting him at 1-ish WAR (IMO) was ridiculous... but I get it... because of 2022. But I think it was the 3 of us politely requesting the Tigers to hold onto Candy. Outside of us... I think there was a strong inclination to dump him. If memory serves that is... OK - just to play counselor for the Defense here 😉, the con went like this.: Jeimer is 30 in '23, he'll be a declining asset by the time they are ready to win, you don't know what you are going to get from him, your new spiffy GM has a chance to show what he can do finding you a shiny 3B prospect that can be part of the future (what if Malloy had been able to play 3rd?). There is nothing to play for in 2023, they will be a 4th place, treading water team at best. I think it's the fact that there could be/could have been/may yet be, something to play for that puts the decision back into the hindsight binoculars in a way it would not be if they were 15 games out. And that's perfectly fair. Edited July 1, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 44 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: I don't think we need Eduardo to opt out for a cheap payroll. He's paid extremely low for an effective upper echelon starter. The only reason his salary is currently aligned to his performance is due to injuries or related. He's still a huge bargain. Schoop and Miggy leaving the roster will drop our payroll significantly... $50-55-ish Mill? No reason to look for any further savings. Time to figure out where to invest. And to me, that means buying out Eduardo's option if indeed that is an... option. Holding onto him is first choice to me... If we are able to. I agree, it's what the Tigers should do. But just because they're saving money, doesn't mean they'll spend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 The next few weeks may even determine if the Tigers are....buyers? With quality SP coming back, followed by Greene and Baddoo, this team may be ready to take off? I think we have an advantage in strength of schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: The next few weeks may even determine if the Tigers are....buyers? With quality SP coming back, followed by Greene and Baddoo, this team may be ready to take off? I think we have an advantage in strength of schedule. It's really tempting to think about what could go right. There is the pitching, but on top of that Miggy is being productive, Torkelson is being productive and teasing more than that, Greene was on a 6 WAR pace before he went down, Rogers has solidified the catching, Vierling has been a steady presence. then again there are still land mines - Lange in particular. Still very hard to persuade yourself this team can suffer any kind of good luck. Edited July 1, 2023 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmitch55 Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 Not a real tough schedule in July. .500 may be in our reach by the end of the month. I think we'll be buyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted July 1, 2023 Share Posted July 1, 2023 I don’t think the Tigers want Eduardo to opt out. He’s on a team friendly deal, relative to more recent free agent deals. I think everyone expects him to exercise it—for the same reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: I don’t think the Tigers want Eduardo to opt out. He’s on a team friendly deal, relative to more recent free agent deals. I think everyone expects him to exercise it—for the same reason. If he is pitching well at the deadline you just have to trade him, otherwise he certainly walks for nothing. Tigs just can't tolerate giving away more recovable roster value. The only way you don't trade him is he signs a new deal before the deadline. Edited July 2, 2023 by gehringer_2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 16 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: If he is pitching well at the deadline you just have to trade him, otherwise he certainly walks for nothing. Tigs just can't tolerate giving away more recovable roster value. The only way you don't trade him is he signs a new deal before the deadline. 💯 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: OK - just to play counselor for the Defense here 😉, the con went like this.: Jeimer is 30 in '23, he'll be a declining asset by the time they are ready to win, you don't know what you are going to get from him, your new spiffy GM has a chance to show what he can do finding you a shiny 3B prospect that can be part of the future (what if Malloy had been able to play 3rd?). There is nothing to play for in 2023, they will be a 4th place, treading water team at best. I think it's the fact that there could be/could have been/may yet be, something to play for that puts the decision back into the hindsight binoculars in a way it would not be if they were 15 games out. And that's perfectly fair. It was only for one year. His only value was as a trade deadline asset in 2023... that's it. After the season he's a FA so... bye bye. Actually, bye bye at the deadline. I bet on Candy (mentally... the Tigers didn't... physically) having value at the deadline and Schoop having 0 value at the deadline so I wanted Schoop dropped from the roster. Just my offseason viewpoint. Candy = One Year ONLY = trade deadline asset (I thought he'd get closer to a 3.5 WAR season than the 1-ish WAR season he was being projected at...). Schoop = Negative value = dump him, November, 2022. IMO. But... what do I know...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 4 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: Dude... I was so on keeping Candy this offseason... I was right there with you... I was pegging him at 3.5-ish WAR and I think you had run calc's on maybe 2-War? that said he was absolutely worth the resign. I thought given where he was and his likely rebound even to the low projection of 1.1, he was a low-risk sign. I also thought it was defensible to keep Willi. I would not have said the same thing about Schoop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: If he is pitching well at the deadline you just have to trade him, otherwise he certainly walks for nothing. Tigs just can't tolerate giving away more recovable roster value. The only way you don't trade him is he signs a new deal before the deadline. The other thing is that Eduardo’s underlying numbers are flashing outlier warning lights. Sure, his ERA- is 51, but he’s also getting a little lucky on HR/FB, BABIP, and LOB. That’s why his RA9-WAR is 2.6 but his regular WAR is 1.7–still pretty good, but not quite All-Star level. The one real good thing Eduardo is doing is bringing his walk rate down a couple ticks, better than his 2021 number. Beyond that, his topline numbers are stellar and someone is going to give him the combination to the safe next year. I just hope it’s not us. Edited July 2, 2023 by chasfh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.