buddha Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 7 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: #2 - Jeimer Candelario... Candelario is a virtual lock to move within the next few weeks. Washington signed the third baseman to a $5MM deal after he was non-tendered by the Tigers. The move has worked out beautifully, as the switch-hitting infielder has posted a .261/.338/.477 line with strong defensive metrics. Nats’ GM Mike Rizzo told Ken Rosenthal of the Athletic last week he was setting a high asking price on Candelario early in deadline season. That’s understandable with a month to go, but the club eventually figures to pull the trigger on the best offer available. Candelario would be a fringe qualifying offer candidate, so Washington’s best chance to recoup future value is by moving him this summer. he can ask all he wants but i doubt they get that much for a rental third baseman who has is having half a good season. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruzer1 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 15 hours ago, jz68 said: There's no reason the Tigers can't sustain having a Top 10 payroll. When the Tigers put a good team on the field, the fans show up. I'm not saying we should be near the top of the league, but there's no reason we shouldn't be somewhere in the #7 to #10 range. That's what the Mets and Padres said. I would rather just acquire talent like the Rays. Money doesn't buy anything in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 11 hours ago, Tiger337 said: Then they would have made a similar trade with someone else because I don't think there was any chance they were keeping Soto. Maybe they would have.... but that's sort of the point, the butterfly effect comes into play when we come up with hypotheticals about "well, they could have signed Candelario AND brought Maton/Vierling in".... we don't know what the mindset of the front office was with respect to Candelario or his presence on the roster, and it is possible that his presence causes them to deprioritize certain areas where they did acquire in the offseason. As I said above, others will have different point of views, but the hypotheticals don't fly with me.... the way the offseason laid out, and with them having to make the decision on Candy before doing literally anything else leaves way too much uncertainty to reach those conclusions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 9 hours ago, casimir said: And then even if Candelario and Maton were on the same squad, do we know that there wouldn’t have been a deal for McKinstry? Maron & McKinstry aren’t just 3B options. Clearly they fit the prototype utility player that Harris/Hinch had eyes for lately. Incidentally, I believe the bolded could be a reason they didn't bring Candy back..... Harris/Hinch value versatility, and Candelario isn't versatile. Maybe despite whatever bounce back upside he may have had, they didn't see him as part of the long term picture and moved on.... which is fine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: Candelario isn't versatile. but he is a switch hitter. The whole versatility thing revolves around working platoon angles. A switch hitter, if he's a real switch hitter and not just a guy that stands on the other side to make his outs (i.e. reasonable small platoon split), removes himself from the L/R sustitution merry-go-round. If Jeimer had hit RHP better last season I don't think the fact that he wasn't position versatile would have bothered them very much. And TBF, he could play a little first, though not particularly well! Edited July 7, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaki Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 (edited) I wonder if switch hitting will be less of a thing in the future. Back in the day when low 90's FB's were considered "heat" it was probably easier to get around on pitches from your "off" side. With so many 95+ FB out there (and fresher pitchers with the increase in BP use) will it become a lost art? Edited July 7, 2023 by Shinzaki 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Shinzaki said: I wonder if switch hitting will be less of a thing in the future. Back in the day when low 90's FB's were considered "heat" it wa sprobably easier to get around on pitches from your "off" side. With so many 95+ FB out there (and fresher pitchers with the increase in BP use) will it become a lost art? Fair point, but the the factor pushing the other way woud be increasing slider usage. The sharp slider breaking down/away is generally the toughest pitch to see and handle so not having to deal with that remains good incentive for attempting to SH. Edited July 7, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 Candelario is having a better year than all the role players they acquired. I'll take the better player every year. The only baseball reason to let him go was they didn't think he'd do this well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 1 minute ago, Tiger337 said: Candelario is having a better year than all the role players they acquired. I'll take the better player every year. The only baseball reason to let him go was they didn't think he'd do this well. The role players are controllable for far longer... Candy has one good year and walks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 2 minutes ago, mtutiger said: The role players are controllable for far longer... Candy has one good year and walks. I'll take the player having the better year. If he doesn't fit in the future, then trade him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 I think if we had kept Candy, and he had the season he's having for us (debatable), he likely would be moved at the deadline. I'm interested to see who the Nationals receive in return--if it's a haul, I'll be more bummed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 I'm looking forward to the posts keeping track of the bag of balls Candelario is traded for. The Tigers could have had that bag of balls.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 11 hours ago, buddha said: he can ask all he wants but i doubt they get that much for a rental third baseman who has is having half a good season. It's better to just let him go and get nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 2020 - Candelario led the Tigers in WAR 2021 - Candelario led the Tigers in WAR 2023 first half - Candelario has more WAR than any other Tiger. You know, I don't really care that much about Candelario, but I have a difficult time understanding why the majority of posters here seem to be trying to convince the minority that there is no possible reason why the Candelario would have been any use to the Tigers at all this year. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted July 7, 2023 Author Share Posted July 7, 2023 31 minutes ago, Tigermojo said: I'm looking forward to the posts keeping track of the bag of balls Candelario is traded for. The Tigers could have had that bag of balls.... if the Nats trade him to the Dodgers for Trayce Thompson, I'm going to be super pissed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 The what if game is silly. You can spin it anyway you want to. What if he stayed in Detroit and continued to suck? It doesn't matter. It's in the past. Decisions were made. The end. When he gets traded for three 18 year olds, do we have to hear about them for the next twenty years? One is in Korea, one blew out his knee and one runs a car dealership in D.C. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: 2020 - Candelario led the Tigers in WAR 2021 - Candelario led the Tigers in WAR 2023 first half - Candelario has more WAR than any other Tiger. What happened in 2022? Seems like that should be accounted for in this discussion. Edited July 7, 2023 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 54 minutes ago, Tigermojo said: I'm looking forward to the posts keeping track of the bag of balls Candelario is traded for. The Tigers could have had that bag of balls.... You can also keep track of the posts saying that he is 3rd in majors in WAR among third basemen. 😃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Tigermojo said: The what if game is silly. You can spin it anyway you want to. What if he stayed in Detroit and continued to suck? It doesn't matter. It's in the past. Decisions were made. The end. When he gets traded for three 18 year olds, do we have to hear about them for the next twenty years? One is in Korea, one blew out his knee and one runs a car dealership in D.C. Death, taxes, Tigers fans and writers ruminating about "old friends" Edited July 7, 2023 by mtutiger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 5 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: You can also keep track of the posts saying that he is 3rd in majors in WAR among third basemen. 😃 It would be awesome if they remained in the non-Tigers thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 Just now, mtutiger said: What happened in 2022? Seems like that should be accounted for in this discussion. He had more bWAR in 2022 than either Maton, Vierling or McKinstry has had in their careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Jonathan Schoop had more bWAR in 2021 than either Maton, Vierling or McKinstry has had in their careers. That was his best year though. Candelario did that in his worst year. I agree none of this stuff really matters, but this whole discussion started when people were defending Harris/Hinch for not having a decent 3B because there was nobody available. The fact is they already had one which is the main point I've been making on this topic the last couple of days. Edited July 7, 2023 by Tiger337 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: 2020 - Candelario led the Tigers in WAR 2021 - Candelario led the Tigers in WAR 2023 first half - Candelario has more WAR than any other Tiger. You know, I don't really care that much about Candelario, but I have a difficult time understanding why the majority of posters here seem to be trying to convince the minority that there is no possible reason why the Candelario would have been any use to the Tigers at all this year. i'm not trying to do that, i'm just saying i doubt washington gets a ton for him at the deadline. that said, they'll get SOMETHING, which is better than the nothing the tigers will get because he is no longer on their team. i didnt think it was a big deal they let him walk, but he's been better this year than i thought he would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: That was his best year though. Candelario did that in his worst year. I agree none of this stuff really matters, but this whole discussion started when people were defending Harris/Hinch for not having a decent 3B because there was nobody available. The fact is they already had one which is the main point I've been making on this topic the last couple of days. They did, but because of his status as a non-tender candidate, they had to make a decision before the free agent market ever got off the ground. And they made it.... Who knows, maybe they actually did try to obtain other candidates during free agency and it didn't pan out. We don't really know that. Obviously Harris and/or Hinch will take flak for that, that goes with the territory. But one of my points, that I've been making for months now, is that I'm not going to take the position that it was fine to do what they did and then, retroactively, update it after they weren't able to backfill in the best possible way or when Candelario ended up having a better than expected year. That's called intellectual inconsistency. And with Candy being a free agent at the end of this year, it's just not the end of the world.... it feels like Paredes was a far worse outcome for this franchise and yet that topic has even received less time than flogging this horse has taken lol At the end of the day as well, I said this at some point recently, a lot of this comes down to the tendency of this current regime to tightly control information. They probably have more legit reasons for doing what they did here, whether one agrees with them or not, but that's also not publicly available information.... I'm sure in terms of the trade, there are benefits from that, but in terms of media and PR, it leaves a vacuum to be filled that the Tigers beat writers and fanbase are more than willing to fill. Often rooted in speculation rather than anything concrete. Edited July 7, 2023 by mtutiger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 3 minutes ago, mtutiger said: But one of my points, that I've been making for months now, is that I'm not going to take the position that it was fine to do what they did and then, retroactively, update it after they weren't able to backfill in the best possible way or when Candelario ended up having a better than expected year. That's called intellectual inconsistency. And with Candy being a free agent at the end of this year, it's just not the end of the world.... I understand that. I did not like the Candelario move when they made it, so I am being consistent too. I think the Paredes move gets less push back because most people liked the move when it was made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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