2023 Trade Deadline

[RandyMarsh]

  On 7/25/2023 at 2:09 AM, KL2 said:

When was the last time a team won built around defense?!

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The 2004 Pistons?

[KL2]

  On 7/25/2023 at 2:15 AM, Tiger337 said:

Pitching and defense often work together, so it's hard to tell.  It's probably less important than it used to be with all the strikeouts now, but it still matters.  

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Not saying you need a team of Delmons out there. 

But, comeon are we really gonna jettison a potentially a good hitter because 'Hitting slumps. Defense is daily.'

[Tiger337]

  On 7/25/2023 at 2:18 AM, KL2 said:

Not saying you need a team of Delmons out there. 

But, comeon are we really gonna jettison a potentially a good hitter because 'Hitting slumps. Defense is daily.'

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I am not a fan of cliches like 'Hitting slumps. Defense is daily.'  However, it depends on how good a hitter and which position.  If it's a corner outfielder or first baseman, then you want to emphasize offense more.  If it's a shortstop or catcher, then defense becomes more important. 

[SoCalTiger]

  On 7/25/2023 at 2:09 AM, KL2 said:

When was the last time a team won built around defense?!

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84 Tigers 🐅 

Parrish Trammel Whitaker Lemon up the middle. Morris and Petry starting with Lopez and Hernandez closing. 

[SoCalTiger]

  On 7/25/2023 at 2:15 AM, Tiger337 said:

Pitching and defense often work together, so it's hard to tell.  It's probably less important than it used to be with all the strikeouts now, but it still matters.  

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Yes exactly. Not saying hitting is isn’t important. Of course it is but hitters who field are key. The ball will find you. See Buckner. Bill or painfully our Tiger pitchers in the  2006 World Series to name just two. 

[Wockenfussy]

If the "news" that the Tigers are inclined to hold onto Carpenter leaked from the Tigers organization, the whole story, such as it is, is that they are prepared to move him for the right offer. Honestly, there shouldn't be anyone who is untouchable on this roster for the RIGHT offer. 

[digitalpigsmuggler]

  On 7/25/2023 at 12:07 PM, Wockenfussy said:

If the "news" that the Tigers are inclined to hold onto Carpenter leaked from the Tigers organization, the whole story, such as it is, is that they are prepared to move him for the right offer. Honestly, there shouldn't be anyone who is untouchable on this roster for the RIGHT offer. 

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Carpenter alone is not really going to get much of a return. He is a 1.3 WAR player. 

[LongLiveMaroth]

  On 7/25/2023 at 12:53 PM, digitalpigsmuggler said:

Carpenter alone is not really going to get much of a return. He is a 1.3 WAR player. 

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1.3 WAR would make him a top 100 player in the league right now according to FG. I think you are underestimating the return for that with all of the years of control. Yeah, he is a liability in the field but clearly, the bat plays. 

[TigersForever1256]

  On 7/25/2023 at 1:24 PM, LongLiveMaroth said:

Yeah, he is a liability in the field but clearly, the bat plays. 

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I would not say this after yesterday's game.

You COULD however say it about a catcher who finds himself in LF and taking poor routes to line drives.

[RatkoVarda]

One week to go. ERod and Lorenzen will (must) be moved. Would be very surprised if they are the only ones. 90% of the organization are Avila's guys. Buyers outnumber sellers this year. Scott "Calculated Risk" Harris can go a little crazy.

[Tiger337]

Carpenter is not a good defender, but the relatively small sample defensive numbers do not suggest he is terrible compared to other corner outfielders.  More like average. Anyway,  I don't really understand why they would trade him... unless some team is offereing Chet Lemon.  

[alex]

  On 7/25/2023 at 1:38 PM, RatkoVarda said:

One week to go. ERod and Lorenzen will (must) be moved. Would be very surprised if they are the only ones. 90% of the organization are Avila's guys. Buyers outnumber sellers this year. Scott "Calculated Risk" Harris can go a little crazy.

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Agreed. It 'may' be a sellers market to an extent. Yet, will teams like Baltimore, Cincy, etc. go for it and break there previously practiced approaches?

However, even an extension may not be a bad idea for one of the SPs.

With said I hope they do not settle on 'volume' returns as was mentioned earlier here (had enough of that with previous deals/regime) and go more for higher end types - even if we have to put in a prospect/RP or two (not our top prospect guys) - in order to get that type of return.

[LongLiveMaroth]

  On 7/25/2023 at 1:38 PM, RatkoVarda said:

One week to go. ERod and Lorenzen will (must) be moved. Would be very surprised if they are the only ones. 90% of the organization are Avila's guys. Buyers outnumber sellers this year. Scott "Calculated Risk" Harris can go a little crazy.

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Agreed, question is if someone (Baltimore, Cincy, Arizona) reaches out about Manning and is willing to send a high-level position player(s) do you take it?

[gehringer_2]

  On 7/25/2023 at 2:11 PM, Tiger337 said:

Carpenter is not a good defender, but the relatively small sample defensive numbers do not suggest he is terrible compared to other corner outfielders.  More like average. Anyway,  I don't really understand why they would trade him... unless some team is offereing Chet Lemon.  

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I'd guess the perception is driven by the fact that he doesn't play very well at the wall, and those plays have very high visibility and skew perception out of proportion to their numbers. Plus he didn't have a good defensive rep coming of the AAA. I'm usually skeptical that older players ever improve their fielding much but it does happen. Willi Castro improved more last season than I thought he could.

 

Edited July 25, 2023 by gehringer_2

[RandyMarsh]

  On 7/25/2023 at 2:18 PM, LongLiveMaroth said:

Agreed, question is if someone (Baltimore, Cincy, Arizona) reaches out about Manning and is willing to send a high-level position player(s) do you take it?

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I would definetly trade Manning for a high level position prospect but I am also a bigger Manning skeptic than most. I just don't see the consistent stuff or command to make him anything more than a mid rotation starter at best when he isn't having BABIP luck. 

There are games where he flashes premium stuff but they just don't come often enough for me to believe that he can be an All Star level pitcher, unlike say a Skubal. 

[Tiger337]

  On 7/25/2023 at 2:18 PM, LongLiveMaroth said:

Agreed, question is if someone (Baltimore, Cincy, Arizona) reaches out about Manning and is willing to send a high-level position player(s) do you take it?

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I would.  

[LongLiveMaroth]

  On 7/25/2023 at 2:34 PM, RandyMarsh said:

I would definetly trade Manning for a high level position prospect but I am also a bigger Manning skeptic than most. I just don't see the consistent stuff or command to make him anything more than a mid rotation starter at best when he isn't having BABIP luck. 

There are games where he flashes premium stuff but they just don't come often enough for me to believe that he can be an All Star level pitcher, unlike say a Skubal. 

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I am also a skeptic, I feel like he will always be a player that has the right attributes to be successful but never quite get there. 

[gehringer_2]

  On 7/25/2023 at 2:41 PM, Tiger337 said:

I would.  

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IDK - how 'high level'? The risk trading a guy like Manning is that he's at a point where it's too hard to guess where his career is going - it's trying to decide if you are selling too low or not. I guess I'd rather buy talent on the FA market than make a trade with so much uncertainty around it, but YMMV. That and the fact that the pitching pipeline has gone from being very full to very empty since Manning, Skubal and Mize have been called up.

Wentz had another good AAA outing, but that doesn't seem to translate for him. Faedo had a good start but his stuff is just not that good. - he basically has to be a Maddox type guy to succeed. His command might get there, might not. Maddnn and Jobe are about it in terms of high level potential that anywhere close.

Edited July 25, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Tigeraholic1]

Hearing Cincy looking to move Jonathan India for young controllable pitching. Not sure he would be a great fit though he is only 26.

[Tiger337]

  On 7/25/2023 at 2:57 PM, gehringer_2 said:

IDK - how 'high level'?

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Very high level, like one of the top position prospects in the minors.  I don't think teams would offer that but that was my interpretation of the the hypothetical question.  

[RatkoVarda]

Manning for Nolan Gorman. Maybe that's a Winter trade, but could work. 4 years of Manning for 5 years of Gorman. Put him back at 3B if you think Keith can make it at 2B.

[Tenacious D]

I’d do Manning for India, though I don’t think they’d go for it.  Also, moving Manning or Skubal will exacerbate out current depth, if you believe we should still trade ERod and Lorenzen to avoid losing them later for nothing.

[Longgone]

  On 7/25/2023 at 2:18 PM, LongLiveMaroth said:

Agreed, question is if someone (Baltimore, Cincy, Arizona) reaches out about Manning and is willing to send a high-level position player(s) do you take it?

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There’s little point in creating a hole to fill a hole.

[LongLiveMaroth]

  On 7/25/2023 at 3:26 PM, Tenacious D said:

I’d do Manning for India, though I don’t think they’d go for it.  Also, moving Manning or Skubal will exacerbate out current depth, if you believe we should still trade ERod and Lorenzen to avoid losing them later for nothing.

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See I don't think I would. India played really well during his RoY season but since then he hasn't had an above average wRC+ for the past year and a half and he is a bit of a defensive liability.  

[RatkoVarda]

  On 7/25/2023 at 3:35 PM, LongLiveMaroth said:

he is a bit of a defensive liability. 

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he's bad defensively