LongLiveMaroth Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: he's bad defensively I was trying to be nice 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted July 25, 2023 Author Share Posted July 25, 2023 7 minutes ago, Longgone said: There’s little point in creating a hole to fill a hole. but isn't it better to have holes in the rotation, if there are multiple FA options available this winter? and players could be looking for a Lorenzen-type rebound? the position players - again - this winter are very scarce, and - again - Comerica is not going to be seen as a preferred destination for many hitters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted July 25, 2023 Author Share Posted July 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said: I was trying to be nice 😂 yikes! he's even worse than I thought. dead last at 2b since he has been in the majors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 If somebody truly believes in Manning going forward then I could see not wanting to trade him and just create a hole in the rotation but like I said before I'm just not that person. To me you're really not creating that big of hole by trading Manning, to me he's a mid to back of the rotation type guy and that's assuming he stays healthy. Even this year where he is supposedly pitching well his peripherals are in the upper 4s or near 5 which is about where I peg him at. So if I can get a potential everyday player that has the possibility to be plus and is under control for awhile I'm doing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longgone Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: If somebody truly believes in Manning going forward then I could see not wanting to trade him and just create a hole in the rotation but like I said before I'm just not that person. To me you're really not creating that big of hole by trading Manning, to me he's a mid to back of the rotation type guy and that's assuming he stays healthy. Even this year where he is supposedly pitching well his peripherals are in the upper 4s or near 5 which is about where I peg him at. So if I can get a potential everyday player that has the possibility to be plus and is under control for awhile I'm doing it. If that’s true, then no one is trading any kind of top prospect for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 20 minutes ago, Longgone said: There’s little point in creating a hole to fill a hole. That may be true, but I think it applies more in the short term than the long term. When building for the future, I favor position players over pitchers. If you are all in to win right now, then it's a different story. I do want the Tigers to try to be competitive next year, but they are still at the point where any major move would need to help them more in 3 years than right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said: IDK - how 'high level'? The risk trading a guy like Manning is that he's at a point where it's too hard to guess where his career is going - it's trying to decide if you are selling too low or not. I guess I'd rather buy talent on the FA market than make a trade with so much uncertainty around it, but YMMV. That and the fact that the pitching pipeline has gone from being very full to very empty since Manning, Skubal and Mize have been called up. Wentz had another good AAA outing, but that doesn't seem to translate for him. Faedo had a good start but his stuff is just not that good. - he basically has to be a Maddox type guy to succeed. His command might get there, might not. Maddnn and Jobe are about it in terms of high level potential that anywhere close. Turnbull is also coming back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: Turnbull is also coming back. For how long? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 3 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: Turnbull is also coming back. true. Maybe it's just inverse recency bias but my confidence in him is low. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 2 hours ago, TigersForever1256 said: I would not say this after yesterday's game. You COULD however say it about a catcher who finds himself in LF and taking poor routes to line drives. Haase doesn't belong in the OF. He's a backup catcher. If Hinch is that hard up for a RH hitting outfielder, they shouldn't have released Marisnick. Never should have brought up Maton. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports_Freak Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 1 minute ago, Tiger337 said: For how long? Until they try to option him to Toledo and he comes up with a new, secret "injury". IMO, he should never pitch for the Tigers again. Trade him for a backup, RH outfielder. 😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 30 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said: Comerica is not going to be seen as a preferred destination for many hitters. just send a tape of last Saturday's game along with the offer sheet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: For how long? It's not only that - I'm not that big on pitchers with his profile. His best pitch is that 2 seam FB that darts all over the place, but it's a double edged sword - but he doesn't really command it, it just goes where it goes, so depending of how it's flying, he's on that knife edge of either getting behind or not having good enough stuff on any given day. Wentz had that issue in his last start - when you don't have a FB you can't throw for a reliable strike it easy for the wheels to suddenly fall off. Edited July 25, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 12 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said: Haase doesn't belong in the OF. He's a backup catcher. If Hinch is that hard up for a RH hitting outfielder, they shouldn't have released Marisnick. Never should have brought up Maton. Yeah - Maton and Baddoo both seem to need more serious retooling right now that can happen on the fly at ML level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Tiger337 said: Carpenter is not a good defender, but the relatively small sample defensive numbers do not suggest he is terrible compared to other corner outfielders. More like average. Anyway, I don't really understand why they would trade him... unless some team is offereing Chet Lemon. This is what I was thinking—if we are looking to build a organization containing hitters of the future, and we believe that Carpenter is a Hitter of the Future, then what are we trying to accomplish by trading him? What are we looking for instead of him? I mean, I get the idea of no one is untouchable and everyone is on the table—what are the chances that we can trade a Kerry Carpenter to help someone today and receive a younger, better, better-defending Kerry Carpenter in return who is simply farther away from the majors? I'm not getting what the there there is for either side in a move like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 1 hour ago, LongLiveMaroth said: See I don't think I would. India played really well during his RoY season but since then he hasn't had an above average wRC+ for the past year and a half and he is a bit of a defensive liability. Exactly this. Any team going long on India is going to have to move him off second, and it can't be third, because he has a noodle for an arm. If he keeps going on his current trajectory, I think he's going to have a short career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 57 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: true. Maybe it's just inverse recency bias but my confidence in him is low. Turnbull is one of those guys who, I wonder whether his state of mind affects his state of play more than average. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motor City Sonics Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 I don't think Carpenter is that bad defensively. he's a guy who you can confidently use as an OF/DH. I think next year they'll be using the DH spot as a way to give guys a rest and not really a fulltime DH. Carpenter is the young player we're developing that we haven't had and now we want to trade him? Not unless the return is really good. Jonathan India would be alright if we could get rid of Javy Baez and use Short/McKinstry at SS. Nick Maton isn't making the most of his second chance. I don't think they need to make a major move. Get someone for Lorenzen and for E-Rod if he is telling them he's leaving. There are some young players coming. There are some young pitchers coming back. I don't think this team is too many players away, actually. They'll have to overpay for a hitter in Free Agency and Keith/Malloy/Meadows might not be great right away, but I don't think a major shakeup is needed now. Schoop is gone. Miggy will soon turn into pure energy and be absorbed into the atmosphere as a ball of pure light and that;s $40 million off the books. If Javy leaves it's what, $65 million and E-Rod might walk away from his $17million. That could be over $80 million off the books that wouldn't hurt the team too badly. Spend smartly, build depth if you can't get a star. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted July 25, 2023 Author Share Posted July 25, 2023 1 minute ago, Motor City Sonics said: Jonathan India would be alright if we could get rid of Javy Baez and use Short/McKinstry at SS. I don't see how downgrading the defense at SS from Baez to Short/McKinstry helps keep a horrible defender like India on the field at 2b. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 If we are trading Manning then I am calling Baltimore for Westberg and third base is solved for 5 years. Greene-Tork_Carpenter are becoming a semblance of a middle batting order so I would hesitate to trade Carpenter. Thats progress but the problem is they cover the easiest positions to fill on a team - Leftfield- First base and DH which is why the rebuild is still daunting. Turnbull is fodder in my book and I am tired of his promise. Four seasons with only 60 starts and we are still hoping. Forget it. Get him pitching and trade him this off season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 35 minutes ago, Motor City Sonics said: I don't think Carpenter is that bad defensively. he's a guy who you can confidently use as an OF/DH. I think next year they'll be using the DH spot as a way to give guys a rest and not really a fulltime DH. Carpenter is the young player we're developing that we haven't had and now we want to trade him? Not unless the return is really good. Jonathan India would be alright if we could get rid of Javy Baez and use Short/McKinstry at SS. Nick Maton isn't making the most of his second chance. I don't think they need to make a major move. Get someone for Lorenzen and for E-Rod if he is telling them he's leaving. There are some young players coming. There are some young pitchers coming back. I don't think this team is too many players away, actually. They'll have to overpay for a hitter in Free Agency and Keith/Malloy/Meadows might not be great right away, but I don't think a major shakeup is needed now. Schoop is gone. Miggy will soon turn into pure energy and be absorbed into the atmosphere as a ball of pure light and that;s $40 million off the books. If Javy leaves it's what, $65 million and E-Rod might walk away from his $17million. That could be over $80 million off the books that wouldn't hurt the team too badly. Spend smartly, build depth if you can't get a star. Carpenter is a DH in my book. Period. I am tired of Detroit forcing bad defenders on the field AND hoping they hit. Get defenders who can swing the bat or move on to the next one. Our minors and majors are filled with crappy defenders..Mallory- Keith- Jung- Badoo- Carpenter - Haas...just STOP. Baez is our best defender and everyone wants him replaced. It's backwards. Why try to develop Pitching when your defense can not catch the ball or throw it. Think Defense and you will end up with all around players that can win the game on both sides of the ball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said: Baez is our best defender and everyone wants him replaced. It's backwards. Why try to develop Pitching when your defense can not catch the ball or throw it. While, I don't think all 8 fielders need to be plus defenders, the highlighed portion is a good reason for emphasizing defense. You can't win 90 games with just fielding, but you can win with pitching and defense enhances that. Playing in Comerica Park with strong defense, they can have great run prevention without elite pitchers. Edited July 25, 2023 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigerbomb13 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 53 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said: If we are trading Manning then I am calling Baltimore for Westberg and third base is solved for 5 years. Greene-Tork_Carpenter are becoming a semblance of a middle batting order so I would hesitate to trade Carpenter. Thats progress but the problem is they cover the easiest positions to fill on a team - Leftfield- First base and DH which is why the rebuild is still daunting. Turnbull is fodder in my book and I am tired of his promise. Four seasons with only 60 starts and we are still hoping. Forget it. Get him pitching and trade him this off season. Yeah I’ve basically given up on Turnbull turning into much of anything. It’s also surprising that he’s almost 31, so he’s not exactly young at this point either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 5 minutes ago, Tigerbomb13 said: Yeah I’ve basically given up on Turnbull turning into much of anything. It’s also surprising that he’s almost 31, so he’s not exactly young at this point either. If Turnbull had been able to make himself tradeable before the deadline I would have been OK with them paying Lorenzen and moving Turnbull, but it was not to be.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveMaroth Posted July 25, 2023 Share Posted July 25, 2023 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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