2023 Trade Deadline

[RandyMarsh]

1 minute ago, KL2 said:

That is absolutely nuts to me.

I'd rather have 1 championship and 100 years of losing, over 100 year straight of falling just short. Nobody remembers who just made the playoffs. Only the Lions hang banners for playoff appearances. 

And too many of you guys take this idea too literally. It's like building for sustained success and winning titles are mutually exclusive. They aren't. Cardinals and Boston have done it. 

What I'm saying is that for all the accolades people pour on Billy beane and the rays, they haven't won a title. So it's far to say their model might not be the best to emulate because it hasn't resulted in what those teams are gunning for and would give up their first born to get...a title.

To me it's not about what anybody remembers it's my personal joy I get as a fan. In the extreme scenario I mentioned before I may get 10 years of heartbreak after they come up short but I would shake that off shortly after, the remaining part of those 10 years would me enjoying watching a winning team, getting excited for every game, experiencing big game atmospheres etc. Where as with the other scenario sure I would bask in the glory of that championship and there is no doubt I wouldn't forget it but then the other 9 years would be relatively miserable as a fan. 

[gehringer_2]

43 minutes ago, KL2 said:

And too many of you guys take this idea too literally. It's like building for sustained success and winning titles are mutually exclusive. They aren't. Cardinals and Boston have done it. 

The choice comes when you have a team that you know is going to the playoffs, and you are offered a chance to trade your top prospect for a player that will improve your  team even more. At that point you are facing a complitcated choice. If you improve your team from 95 wins to 100 wins, does that actually make a material difference in your chances to get through the playoffs to the end, vs how much have you decreased your chances of getting back for another shot in 3-4 yrs? It's pretty clear that you improve your odds of winning a WS the more times you get to the playoff. The historical record is  weaker when it come to trying to build a super team for one all out shot. 

But even that isn't all there is to consider in that deal. The way the CBA has evolved can you even keep your team together until that prospect is ready to help you win? Are you just as well off to gut your system and go all out because there is no way to get off the boom-bust cycle MLB has set up for teams. (not saying this is necessarily true, some teams do manage to be more consistent, but it's certainly a part of what every team faces looking 5 yrs out).

Edited July 30, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Cruzer1]

I just use the Rays as an example, I just hate the idea of throwing money around to build a team.

[SkyBlue]

https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/1685454700768862208?s=20

 

Max Scherzer will become the first athlete in sports history to be paid at least $15 million by three different teams in a single year.

Washington Nationals: $15 Million

New York Mets: $28

Million Texas Rangers: $15 Million

Edited July 30, 2023 by SkyBlue

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, KL2 said:

That is absolutely nuts to me.

I'd rather have 1 championship and 100 years of losing, over 100 year straight of falling just short. Nobody remembers who just made the playoffs. Only the Lions hang banners for playoff appearances. 

 

And that philiosophy is nuts to me.  I don't care what other people remember.  Peronally, I have an easier time rememberng which teams have been best all year long than which teams won each World Series.  I just looked at the list of the last ten champions and I barely remembered that Washington won the World Series.  What I remember more was that the Dodgers and Astros were better teams.    

But it's more than that.  When I think back to the 1984 Tigers.  I remember them winning the World Series, but what I remember just as much is them being unbeatable for the first 40 games and them being the best all around Tigers team of my lifetime for 171 games.  

[Edman85]

30 minutes ago, SkyBlue said:

https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/1685454700768862208?s=20

 

Max Scherzer will become the first athlete in sports history to be paid at least $15 million by three different teams in a single year.

Washington Nationals: $15 Million

New York Mets: $28

Million Texas Rangers: $15 Million

He already was. This will be the fourth. The Tigers payed him 15+ in 2014 in his final arb year.

Ah... this was him being paid by those teams THIS YEAR with the Nationals deferral.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Edman85

[casimir]

On 7/28/2023 at 2:45 PM, RatkoVarda said:

CWS close to trading Lynn and Kelley to LAD. That's how its done; dump everything.

They’re dumping more than Cousin Eddie did.

[casimir]

On 7/28/2023 at 5:23 PM, Tiger337 said:

The fact that we are sitting atound talking about him is why he has a podcast.  That's how the media works.  Name one person with a podcast on any subject who you count on for reliable news.  It's all entertainment.  

Except he’s not entertaining.

[Tiger337]

9 minutes ago, casimir said:

Except he’s not entertaining.

I don't care one way or the other about him, but if people are listening to the podcast they must find the podcast entertaining.  If someone from the Free Press read this thread, they would be thrilled to see so many people talking about it.  

[Edman85]

6 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I don't care one way or the other about him, but if people are listening to the podcast they must find the podcast entertaining.  If someone from the Free Press read this thread, they would be thrilled to see so many people talking about it.  

Well, I saw Sportz's name on it have never listened as a result, if they are reading.

[romad1]

Holy crap, there is a twitter account for a person named Scott Harris and its an unhinged person not related in any way to our baseball person named that.  

[Tiger337]

10 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Well, I saw Sportz's name on it have never listened as a result, if they are reading.

I have not listened to it either and don't plan to. 

[gehringer_2]

5 minutes ago, romad1 said:

Holy crap, there is a twitter account for a person named Scott Harris and its an unhinged person not related in any way to our baseball person named that.  

I'm surprised you didn't fine dozens. Has to be a pretty common name.

[Tigermojo]

Mets get Acuna's younger brother for Scherzer.  Top 100 and #3 prospect from Texas. I wonder if Harris will try the 1 for 1 approach. We need quality over quantity.

[AlaskanTigersFan]

I hope we sell EVERYTHING. We are still 2 or 3 years away from being relevant.......

[Cruzer1]

1 hour ago, AlaskanTigersFan said:

I hope we sell EVERYTHING. We are still 2 or 3 years away from being relevant.......

There isn't that much that other teams want to buy. They should get a decent return for Rodriguez and Lorenzen.

[kdog]

You build for sustained success. If you are good enough and are lucky with injuries, your team will eventually get a legit title shot in the playoffs.

I would take the Rays and other good organizations trajectory vs the 2015 Royals.

[casimir]

1 hour ago, kdog said:

You build for sustained success. If you are good enough and are lucky with injuries, your team will eventually get a legit title shot in the playoffs.

I would take the Rays and other good organizations trajectory vs the 2015 Royals.

I’d be happy with emulating St. Louis’ last 20-25 seasons.

[kdog]

3 minutes ago, casimir said:

I’d be happy with emulating St. Louis’ last 20-25 seasons.

lol that is the mid market franchise dream. But there's a probably a reason that they are the only franchise that has been able to do it. Even now, they might be headed for a few bad seasons because of some of bad personnel decisions.

[casimir]

5 minutes ago, kdog said:

lol that is the mid market franchise dream. But there's a probably a reason that they are the only franchise that has been able to do it. Even now, they might be headed for a few bad seasons because of some of bad personnel decisions.

Sure, it’s the dream.  The Tigers are in a similar division.  They’ve turned over the front office.  The fan base will support a competitive product.  They’ve got a few youngsters to build around.  Get it going on the right direction, draft & develop.  Why not dream big?

[LongLiveMaroth]

• The Orioles, Marlins, Rays, Astros and Diamondbacks have shown interest in Detroit starters Eduardo Rodriguez and Michael Lorenzen. The Tigers are looking for everyday position players in return and won’t be afraid to put Rodriguez and Lorenzen in the same deal if that delivers the prospects they want.

From Jim Bowden 

[Toddwert]

Good to see they aren’t just giving them away for shiny beads like Al would have done

[casimir]

26 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said:

• The Orioles, Marlins, Rays, Astros and Diamondbacks have shown interest in Detroit starters Eduardo Rodriguez and Michael Lorenzen. The Tigers are looking for everyday position players in return and won’t be afraid to put Rodriguez and Lorenzen in the same deal if that delivers the prospects they want.

From Jim Bowden 

“Show me the prospects!”

[syrett4]

17 minutes ago, Toddwert said:

Good to see they aren’t just giving them away for shiny beads like Al would have done

Yes.  This.  Even Franklin Perez was high on the Houston prospect list at the time, I have always wondered if they knew he was, or was going to be often injured and Al's scouts couldn't recognize it.  Not only did Al take what other teams gave and see what sticks, he also failed in realizing some players at their highest value (Boyd, Fulmer) because he overvalued them in the market in his pea brain.  

Harris seems to have the opposite approach.  He targeted Malloy in the Atlanta system, and threw in Cody Clemens to get the guys he wanted from Philly (Vierling, Maton and Sands).   My guess is he has a few prospects he has targeted in each of the organizations that have called him and he won't be afraid to sweeten packages out (add a reliever or someone like Kriedler/Lipcius/Workman/Cruz or D Cabrera) to get the guys he wants.  Indeed quality over quantity. 

 

[Tenacious D]

7 minutes ago, syrett4 said:

Yes.  This.  Even Franklin Perez was high on the Houston prospect list at the time, I have always wondered if they knew he was, or was going to be often injured and Al's scouts couldn't recognize it.  Not only did Al take what other teams gave and see what sticks, he also failed in realizing some players at their highest value (Boyd, Fulmer) because he overvalued them in the market in his pea brain.  

Harris seems to have the opposite approach.  He targeted Malloy in the Atlanta system, and threw in Cody Clemens to get the guys he wanted from Philly (Vierling, Maton and Sands).   My guess is he has a few prospects he has targeted in each of the organizations that have called him and he won't be afraid to sweeten packages out (add a reliever or someone like Kriedler/Lipcius/Workman/Cruz or D Cabrera) to get the guys he wants.  Indeed quality over quantity. 

 

You’re probably right, but I would argue that (so far), the trade with Philly is playing out as quantity over quality.  Maton and Sands have not lived up to expectations.