2023 Trade Deadline

[casimir]

9 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

They are getting absolutely zero heat for it, but I think the beat writers and national media kinda should wear this too because they were instrumental in expectation setting. Things like JP Morosi tweeting over and over again about how many teams were interested in ERod (which appears to not have been the case at all), or Boob Nightengale talking about how both Lorenzen and ERod were definitely being traded, etc. Or even just the weeks and weeks of speculation by the local beat writers.

Which kinda gets to one of the takeaways I have after a year of watching this front office: just because a writer (locally or nationally) speculates something or spreads a rumor about the Tigers, that doesn't mean they know what the hell they are talking about. In fact, I'm not really sure I can recall a transaction made under Harris where rumors and innuendo preceded the move. 

If fans don't want to end up surprised or shocked, maybe they should stop giving deference to the writers who throw out scenarios because I'm not sure they know anymore than we do, at least about possible trades or free agent moves.

Easy on the writers.  Some of them have noted the draft compensation should Rodriguez decide to opt out.

[mtutiger]

1 minute ago, KL2 said:

Welcome to sports journalism today. 

Where you can be wrong and there is no consequence. It's all about the latest rumor and just running with it without any vetting or consequence all in the quest for Twitter followers (hell its not even clicks anymore)

Yep. And I suspect the relative antipathy that Harris has already generated among some of the beat writers locally during his short tenure has something to do with the fact that the Tigers don't exactly give out a ton of information.

Which may be good from a trade secret perspective but not great from a content generation perspective.

[digitalpigsmuggler]

13 minutes ago, KL2 said:

A) no it doesn't

B) did anyone think he had east coast teams on his no-trade too? 

C) maybe the east coast teams offered piddily 

 

So many fans are making so many assumptions that paint Harris as nothing more than a complete baffoon. 

The reason he did not accept the trade was he wanted to be on the East Coast. I have a very hard time believing a east coast time was not offering at least mid level prospects for E-rod.

I am not saying Harris is buffoon but he missed on this opportunity.

Edited August 2, 2023 by digitalpigsmuggler

[oblong]

That reflects the changes over time as leagues have their own programming now. In the past writers and the media would brag that the teams needed them to sell tickets and promote the brand. Now... nobody buys papers.  Everything is online. You have MLB Network and deals with ESPN and Fox and Turner.  The players aren't hanging around with the writers like they used to.  For one they don't live in the same areas like before.  They most likely don't drink. They are busy working out and staying healthy.  There's nothing really the papers offer us as fans anymore. 

[KL2]

2 minutes ago, digitalpigsmuggler said:

The reason he did not accept the trade was he wanted to be on the East Coast. I have a very hard time believing a east coast time was not offering at least mid level prospects for E-rod.

I am not saying Harris is buffoon but he missed on this opportunity.

So you have a 'very hard time' believing that an east coast team wasn't offering something. But at the same time can't believe that maybe Erod was OK with everything until 4 pm yesterday. 

As I said, its just painting Harris as a baffoon when we really we don't know enough to make all your assumptions. 

[RatkoVarda]

1 hour ago, Longgone said:

He'd be a fool not to opt out.

Yes, but clearly we are not dealing with a normal situation here. If he does not opt out, then yeah, this could all work out well. 3/49 for a veteran pitcher would be great. But it seems unlikely that he does not opt out.

[Motor City Sonics]

I spent 6 weeks in Los Angeles one year and while it was cool the first 10 days, after that it sucked.    Strip Malls & Traffic Jams as far as the eye can see.    Gonna go to the beach today?     Well, even though the beach is 12 miles away, I don't want to invest in the 2 1/2 hours it'll take to get there, so no thanks.   

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, casimir said:

If this is true, were there other reasonable deals lined up?  Did any of those deals involve teams on his no trade clause?  We'll probably never know unless other GMs speak up.

There’s the key word. Outside of the Dodgers, I can envision Harris getting nothing but lowball offers for Eduardo because of any combination of the uncertainty of what Eduardo’s situation will be after the season, the Tigers’ history of accepting garbage returns for good players, and the softness of Eduardo’s topline July performance (5.66 ERA in July). To your point, we will probably never know what the returns on those other (if any) offers were.

[chasfh]

1 hour ago, oblong said:

The response to this non trade has been remarkable and reveals the worst about instant news and discussion points.

Fans were ready to talk about the trade, it didn't happen, now they are pissed because they couldn't talk about it.

 

 

We are talking about it now, though, and isn’t this fun? We’re having a good time, aren’t we? Are we not entertained? I’m being serious here.

[kdog]

There is implicit risk with keeping Erod. He is injury prone and pitching for the Tigers adds the possiblity that we might be on the hook for that contract if he gets hurt again.

Can we at least acknowledge the possiblility that Harris misread the market by setting a high price and only accepting the Dodgers offer as an option?

I will own up to the fact that I am very cynical about all Detroit rebuilds. We have seen missteps early in their tenures that foreshadowed that the guy didn't know what he was doing. I'm still not even sure the Lions will be good until I see a proof of concept. 

[chasfh]

57 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

They are getting absolutely zero heat for it, but I think the beat writers and national media kinda should wear this too because they were instrumental in expectation setting.

Why should they wear anything? The media have no responsibility to help keep the avenues of trade discussion among teams smooth by being circumspect about how they report on it. They are doing exactly what they are being paid to do: drive engagement and ultimately revenue for their employers, the media vehicles, by writing things that interest people. This is one of those circumstances in which it is up to us, the target audience, to filter through the media noise, pick up on what seems reasonable, and ignore or discard the rest.

[mtutiger]

8 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Why should they wear anything? The media have no responsibility to help keep the avenues of trade discussion among teams smooth by being circumspect about how they report on it. They are doing exactly what they are being paid to do: drive engagement and ultimately revenue for their employers, the media vehicles, by writing things that interest people. This is one of those circumstances in which it is up to us, the target audience, to filter through the media noise, pick up on what seems reasonable, and ignore or discard the rest.

To put it another way, the target audience should make them wear it, in terms of future engagement, when they report stuff that isn't accurate.

I know it isn't their responsibility to worry about the teams or discussions smooth or whatever.... but as a fan, it stands to reason that reporters reporting stuff that isn't accurate, or engaging in innuendo, should probably lead to criticism of said reporters. Or maybe questioning their wisdom in the future when they report or tweet.

Edited August 2, 2023 by mtutiger

[chasfh]

47 minutes ago, digitalpigsmuggler said:

The reason he did not accept the trade was he wanted to be on the East Coast. I have a very hard time believing a east coast time was not offering at least mid level prospects for E-rod.

I am not saying Harris is buffoon but he missed on this opportunity.

If Eduardo’s agent was leading everyone along that a deal could be completed with LA all the way up to the last minute, before his client pulled out the rug at the last minute—which we can already reasonably assume—and Harris was getting garbage offers from everyone else—which seems fairly likely—then I would find it hard to blame Harris for anything here. After all, he had to trust that Mato knew what he was doing, and that Mato was dealing with the full faith that Eduardo was on board to go to LA during the process.

[chasfh]

Just now, mtutiger said:

To put it another way, the target audience should make them wear it, in terms of future engagement, when they report stuff that isn't accurate.

Yes, totally fair. It would have to be zeitgeist reaction on our part, though, since we are not unionized as media consumers and can’t bring it up at the next meeting. 😁

[chasfh]

58 minutes ago, digitalpigsmuggler said:

The reason he did not accept the trade was he wanted to be on the East Coast. I have a very hard time believing a east coast time was not offering at least mid level prospects for E-rod.

I am not saying Harris is buffoon but he missed on this opportunity.

Do you mean mid-level prospects like Dawel Lugo (ranked #4 in the Diamondbacks system) and Sergio Alcanatara (ranked #15)?

[kdog]

11 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

To put it another way, the target audience should make them wear it, in terms of future engagement, when they report stuff that isn't accurate.

I know it isn't their responsibility to worry about the teams or discussions smooth or whatever.... but as a fan, it stands to reason that reporters reporting stuff that isn't accurate, or engaging in innuendo, should probably lead to criticism of said reporters. Or maybe questioning their wisdom in the future when they report or tweet.

It's possible that Nightengale and the Pope had accurate sourcing at the time of their tweets. Then things unraveled outside of their purview. But rumors and trades is an entire industry on its own. People need something to talk about on talk shows and podcasts every day. And I need content for my own entertainment.

 

I am a consumer of takes...helps me get through the drudgery of a work day.

Edited August 2, 2023 by kdog

[chasfh]

55 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Yes, but clearly we are not dealing with a normal situation here. If he does not opt out, then yeah, this could all work out well. 3/49 for a veteran pitcher would be great. But it seems unlikely that he does not opt out.

It would not surprise me at all to see Eduardo opt out and sign a 4/70 or even a 3/50 with the Marlins, which would make him as close to his family as possible.

[mtutiger]

24 minutes ago, kdog said:

Can we at least acknowledge the possiblility that Harris misread the market by setting a high price and only accepting the Dodgers offer as an option?

Why is setting a high price for Eduardo's services a mistake?

Like, I don't know that we want the new PBO going out there and signaling to the rest of the league that he can be rolled into accepting a Dawel Lugo-esque return either.

Edited August 2, 2023 by mtutiger

[RatkoVarda]

when Harris and his team actually make a move, they usually get it right. Trading Soto, Jimenez, Guzman and now Lorenzen all look like solid moves. Signing Lorenzen and even Boyd made sense. His 40 man roster churn is bearing fruit. I guess Englert could be a decent BP guy. They were gaming the draft pretty well before 2023, but this year's draft looks to be very well managed.

his non-moves are really irksome. Not signing Chafin (and downgrading to Shreve) to save some cash was just dumb. Not signing any position players (full disclosure: I was looking at Wil Myers, Jean Segura, Brian Anderson, Brandon Belt) in the hope that someone would have some surprising production to help a historically and comically bad offense. Not cutting Schoop for over 2 months when we all knew it was over. Not optioning Maton when he desperately needed a break. And just in general, not doing any interesting trades (with comp picks; or bad contracts; or buy and sell simultaneously; or prospect for prospect). And of course, now the ERod non-move.

[mtutiger]

5 minutes ago, kdog said:

It's possible that Nightengale and the Pope had accurate sourcing at the time of their tweets. Then things unraveled outside of their purview. But rumors and trades is an entire industry on its own. People need something to talk about on talk shows and podcasts every day. And I need content for my own entertainment.

IDK, Lynn Henning literally invented the AJ Hinch opt-out of thin-air.... knowing that information, it boggles my mind that any fan would "engage" there, yet many still do.

[chasfh]

Her’s one media guy who’s making Harris wear it. 

 

[Edman85]

2 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Her’s one media guy who’s making Harris wear it. 

 

First big test is a load of hot take hooey.

[kdog]

4 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Why is setting a high price for Eduardo's services a mistake?

Like, I don't know that we want the new PBO going out there and signaling to the rest of the league that he can be rolled into accepting a Dawel Lugo-esque return either.

yes but keeping E-rod on your roster carries risk with injury and the contract. Holding the line has a downside...and Harris is eating it now. 

[LongLiveMaroth]

This list says that Lee was the 9th best prospect traded at the deadline, not bad for 2 months of Lorenzen. 
https://www.mlb.com/news/ranking-the-prospects-traded-at-2023-deadline?t=mlb-pipeline-coverage

[gehringer_2]

The comments on the Dodger's side sounded real to me - they felt burned. The leads me to think this was not just the outline of a deal which might have been part of a leverage negotiation that didn't go anywhere because Baltimore or whoever the real target was didn't bite; but rather they had a done deal and ERod backed out at the very last minute leaving both teams with nowhere to go as the clock ran out.

What we don't know is how the 'fault' lies between Harris' office, the Dodger FO, ERod's agent, and ERod himself. The Dodgers said they had been talking with the agent. That fact probably absolves Harris to at least some degree. He has no reason to think he'd be hearing anything different from ERod's camp if he had a second line of communication open - and in fact maybe he was in the loop and hearing all the same things the Dodgers were - that is - "we have a deal." It's also possible the Dodgers were assuming more in what the agent said than he intended i.e. - they misled themselves in some part- possible, but that's seems less likely.

Most likely either the agent was blowing smoke assuming he knew what his client wanted when he didn't, or ERod crossed the agent up as well. Either way, from management's perspective you have player who has burned some bridges in terms of teams being interesting in dealing with him in the future. 

I'd expect ERod to have a new agent before opt out time - either because the agent isn't interested in retaining the client and/or  because the client knows he needs to rehabilitate his credibility.