2023 Trade Deadline

[Longgone]

47 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I get that Scott Harris might have been screwed over by ERod if and when he changed his mind at the last minute and didn't want to go to LA. That's not on Harris at all and I genuinely feel bad for him. The player has the right to change their mind, but you have to be open and upfront about it. 

However, what I do believe does fall on him is not having a backup plan/back up team to fall back on. If ERod did veto the trade then what was the the alternate plan for Harris? Has anyone seen a media report about Harris talking with another team, because I have not. That's where I think I have a core problem at having thought about this for the past 12 hours or so. He had to have been negotiating with someone other than the Dodgers no?

I guess if he opts in and stays or gives us the chance to trade him in the offseason, then all this bluster and frustration is for not. And if ERod wants to opt in, I think we would all collectively better if he announced his intentions to do so sooner rather than later.

 

I think the problem is, other teams were likely aware that a deal was close with LA, and they had all moved on at that late juncture. They couldn't wait around just in case the deal fell through.

[Toddwert]

Would we have taken the prospects traded for Jack Flaherty?  To me ERod is better  then Flaherty seems like if there was a deal with Baltimore had to be about the same deal atleast….to me this isnt the end of the world its just an opportunity to get better that was blown

[mtutiger]

3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I agree, but I think this is contrary to Harris' philosophy of constantly churning players to get the best possible player available as organizational depth.  

I would imagine that Harris may have a philosophy of not accepting pennies on the dollar in a trade as well

[Tigeraholic1]

Harris made the mistake to assume Erod would wave the NTC and did not continue working the phones just in case this deal collapased the way it did.

[gehringer_2]

12 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

But I do think that teams shouldn't just trade their pieces for pennies on the dollar just for the sake of trading either. And with what we know and has been reported, that is potentially what they were looking at, although we will likely never know for sure.

also depends on where you evaluate the state of your MiLB system. You only have so many slots. And if you are only getting back lotto tickets? So if I have a lot of MiLB deadwood I'd just as soon clear out and look at some fresh faces, maybe anything is good enough to get back instead of having a guy walk. OTOH - if I've just come off the draft, signed all my guys, like where my system is going, the value of one more lotto ticket might be pretty close to nil.

[Tenacious D]

It's very possible that ERod's agent misread the entire situation.  I doubt the Tigers or Dodgers were engaging directly with the player--the agent might have been speaking on his behalf, and making assumptions along the way.

It's also very possible, if not probable, that ERod had a change of heart once the trade became real.  He seems like a guy that "marches to the beat of his own drum."

With time to reflect and process, I'm OK with absolving Harris some in all of this mess--if there is a criticism, he probably should have had a "B" plan, but it's also possible that his market wasn't as robust--we kept hearing that teams were interested, but it might have only been on their own terms--we'll give you a couple of guys that aren't highly rated or coveted, but that's all.

I would love to see what the Dodgers were willing to surrender.  Will probably leak at some point.

[Tiger337]

23 minutes ago, Toddwert said:

to me this isnt the end of the world its just an opportunity to get better that was blown

Correct.  Chances are the prospects they got would not have made a substantial difference even with a good deal.  I am just at odds with the idea that we can never question the GM because we don't know anything.  A bunch of pitchers were traded at the deadline for decent prospects and the Tigers couldn't get it done with Rodriguez. I don't know for sure, but I believe the Tigers blew an opportunity (unless they think they can keep him beyond this year which is not out of the realm of possibility)

Edited August 2, 2023 by Tiger337

[Tiger337]

11 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I would imagine that Harris may have a philosophy of not accepting pennies on the dollar in a trade as well

Do you think it is at all possible that the Tigers blew an opportunity here?  

[Tigermojo]

We're all going to wish he was traded when he has shoulder discomfort next month.

Isn't Harris' strategy just Moneyball?

Look, a guy with a high OBP!

What position does he play?

None.

We'll take him!

[Shinzaki]

Hmmmm...who could be the party that flaked...the guys with no history of erratic  behavior or the guy who took a few months off in the middle of the season last year...because...because...who knows

[Tenacious D]

The Tigers wanted him gone.  

Did they want him gone because they wanted to get something of value in the event he opted out?  Or because they didn't want him in the rotation for the length of his contract?

[HeyAbbott]

After reading the Erod comments, and chewing this trade deadline over, I think that several things seem to make sense to me.

1) GM's were used to rolling Alivia on a regular basis. Harris has attempted to make his personal  MO to be one that he means what he says. This will serve the organization well in the future. The Tigers are no longer everyone's trade batch.

2) My speculation is that ERod is under tremendous pressure to make his money closer to home. That pressure is coming from his wife and whatever the true nature of such a force, it is his private matter and should stay so.

I don't think this is a failure on Harris so much as a change of heart by ERod after a deal was almost complete.

Either way, ERod will probably always require extra effort from the front office until he is playing near home. I would hope that Harris can find a solution to this, but, until ERod is playing for a Florida team, assuming his family lives in Miami, this will be a continuing problem.

Let the chips fall where they may Scott, but, you have bigger fish to fry in getting the Tiger's house in order.

Edited August 2, 2023 by HeyAbbott

[lordstanley]

Yesterday was a loss for Harris but, like many have said, Twitter has overreacted. It's not "career-defining" or anything crazy like that. This offseason will be the real test and tell me a lot more about Harris and about Chris Illitch.

[gehringer_2]

10 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Correct.  Chances are the prospects they got would not have made a substantial difference even with a good deal.  I am just at odds with the idea that we can never question the GM because we don't know anything.  A bunch of pitchers were traded at the deadline for decent prospects and the Tigers couldn't get it done with Rodriguez.  i don't know for sure, but I believe the Tigers blew an opportunity.      

I'll have to  "Like" this post in text as I have run out of 'likes' today. (Getting soft I guess - First time that has ever happened 😱)

OTOH, the Lorenzen deal looks pretty typical. I suppose we should remember Harris was not here through the ERod saga last season - maybe if he had he would be been more suitably skeptical of his camp and had the foresight not to depend on him agreeing to a waiver. Lesson learned hopefully.

[Shinzaki]

listening to 97.1's pet idiot Riger on the way home last night...he actually theorized that Harris didn't consider ERod's no trade status becaue he doesn't have a GM working under him...he's just too busy to know the details.

I'm a bit mystified by the whole "closer to home " narrative any way.  Unless you actually live in the town you play for...how much more difficult is it to get to wherever ERod lives than LA? .  You travel all of the time anyway...so a flight form Detroit is a few hours shorter than a flight from LA...will 4-5 hours make or break whatever emergency you're in? 

[Tenacious D]

I'll feel better if I know that Harris hates himself for what happened.  And feels great shame.

[Tigermojo]

6 minutes ago, lordstanley said:

Yesterday was a loss for Harris but, like many have said, Twitter has overreacted. It's not "career-defining" or anything crazy like that. This offseason will be the real test and tell me a lot more about Harris and about Chris Illitch.

The offseason is going to be his next big test and after the trade deadline I'm not sure he's going to get a passing grade. He said from the beginning he would hire a GM. I think he should do that now. Two heads are better than one.

[gehringer_2]

As noted by KDog in the Tiger's cub thread, the Tigers cleared space at AAA for one position player and one pitcher by temporarily sending Faedo and Sands to Eries. Not a bad guess the return from the Dodgers would have been AAA guy(s).

Edited August 2, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Tenacious D]

Just now, Shinzaki said:

listening to 97.1's pet idiot Riger on the way home last night...he actually theorized that Harris didn't consider ERod's no trade status becaue he doesn't have a GM working under him...he's just too busy to know the details.

I'm a bit mystified by the whole "closer to home " narrative any way.  Unless you actually live in the town you play for...how much more difficult is it to get to wherever ERod lives than LA? .  You travel all of the time anyway...so a flight form Detroit is a few hours shorter than a flight from LA...will 4-5 hours make or break whatever emergency you're in? 

The only way to rationalize this from Erod's POV was that in the event of an injury this season, he would be compelled to forego his opt-out (vs. becoming an injured free agent) and, as a result, becoming stuck in a location for the next 3 seasons that he doesn't want to be in.

My guess is that he opts out and tries to sign with the one of the FL teams, or another locale closer to home.  I agree, though, that it really shouldn't matter much if you're a two-hour flight away (i.e. Detroit) or one hour (i.e., Atlanta).

[Toddwert]

2 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

The only way to rationalize this from Erod's POV was that in the event of an injury this season, he would be compelled to forego his opt-out (vs. becoming an injured free agent) and, as a result, becoming stuck in a location for the next 3 seasons that he doesn't want to be in.

My guess is that he opts out and tries to sign with the one of the FL teams, or another locale closer to home.  I agree, though, that it really shouldn't matter much if you're a two-hour flight away (i.e. Detroit) or one hour (i.e., Atlanta).

Maybe it isnt about flying but be able to call home or have your family watch your games could be something to do with time zones who knows

[gehringer_2]

8 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

I'm a bit mystified by the whole "closer to home " narrative any way.

Have any family on the Left coast? For me it's not the travel - it's the time zone difference. It's never convenient on both sides to talk. Texting solves some of that, but some people prefer live contact.

Edited August 2, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Tigermojo]

4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

As noted by KDog in the Tiger's cub thread, the Tigers cleared space at AAA for one position player and one pitcher by temporarily sending Faedo and Sands to Eries. Not a bad guess the return from the Dodgers would have been AAA guy(s).

Hunter Feduccia #30 prospect lefty hitting catcher with a .413 OBP at AAA would be my guess just for fun.

[RatkoVarda]

Just now, Tigermojo said:

Hunter Feduccia #30 prospect lefty hitting catcher with a .413 OBP at AAA would be my guess just for fun.

that's a great guess

[Toddwert]

1 minute ago, Tigermojo said:

Hunter Feduccia #30 prospect lefty hitting catcher with a .413 OBP at AAA would be my guess just for fun.

Yeinder Fernandez a C/2b screams a Harris type of player to me

[chasfh]

31 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Correct.  Chances are the prospects they got would not have made a substantial difference even with a good deal.  I am just at odds with the idea that we can never question the GM because we don't know anything.  A bunch of pitchers were traded at the deadline for decent prospects and the Tigers couldn't get it done with Rodriguez. I don't know for sure, but I believe the Tigers blew an opportunity (unless they think they can keep him beyond this year which is not out of the realm of possibility)

is there another pitcher with a situation analogous to Eduardo's that did get moved for decent return? I don't know, I'm asking. If there is, then yes, I am on board with assigning some blame to Harris here. If not—if Eduardo's situation is unique in terms of his contract details regarding opt-outs and team's skittishness to absorb it, even setting aside flaky behavior—then I'm loathe to hammer Harris for not being able to trade him for a solid return.

I think Harris has showed that when he is dealing with a standard situation, such as a straight rental for a good player, he's able to convert it acceptably in a way the prior guy simply couldn't.