2023 Trade Deadline

[RatkoVarda]

LOL, just read article. Total Cluster.

Harris communicated with ERod in person, by text and by phone this last week about discussions and ERod never objected

Deal was all done Monday, and thats when Mato asked for LA to add 1/20M for 2027

So ERod does not want to spend 3.5 years in LA, and then asked to spend 4.5 years in LA

Obviously if healthy he is opting out, because Mato/ERod clearly think he deserves at least 20M more

Harris clearly got effed over; and then was unable to recover any value, despite trying

[mtutiger]

In retrospect, the fact that Gene Mato released a statement on Twitter last night was perhaps PR to get ahead of this story getting out.

[kdog]

They will hope and pray that Erod opts out and wipe their hands of him for good. He and his agent are not reliable enough to count on.

I am not interested in bringing him back.

[mtutiger]

LOL at the social media comments about ERod being a winner because he got to use the clause. 

Using the clause he negotiated is one thing.... not being a good faith actor is another completely. He crossed the line into the latter, from all indication.

[Tigermojo]

So the article makes Erod and his agent the villains and makes Harris look like the victim. Isn't that kind of suspicious? I wonder who the source could be....

[casimir]

3 minutes ago, Tigermojo said:

So the article makes Erod and his agent the villains and makes Harris look like the victim. Isn't that kind of suspicious? I wonder who the source could be....

The heart broken Jake Rogers loving Hollywood starlets.

[RatkoVarda]

I will give Harris huge props for 1) getting someone to meet his high asking price and 2) not throwing ERod under the bus, which he so clearly deserves. Tigers treated him well last year. Would be nice to have some reciprocity. 

 

[casimir]

37 minutes ago, kdog said:

They will hope and pray that Erod opts out and wipe their hands of him for good. He and his agent are not reliable enough to count on.

I am not interested in bringing him back.

If he pitches clean and healthy to finish the season and for some reason he opts in, does his trade value increase because of the known contract control or does it decrease because of the incidents?  Or to what degree do these variables factor in?

[mtutiger]

12 minutes ago, Tigermojo said:

So the article makes Erod and his agent the villains and makes Harris look like the victim. Isn't that kind of suspicious? I wonder who the source could be....

The fact that the reality may be more complicated than what came out of the initial reaction to this happening by Tigers fans does not inherently make it suspicious, no.

And Gene Mato's statement last night, at least in my view, would suggest that Rosenthal's reporting isn't that far off what actually happened (if at all)

Edited August 3, 2023 by mtutiger

[RatkoVarda]

10 minutes ago, Tigermojo said:

So the article makes Erod and his agent the villains and makes Harris look like the victim. Isn't that kind of suspicious? I wonder who the source could be....

Rosenthal specifically criticizes Harris multiple times for not getting anything for the best pitcher on the market who, if healthy, is walking away for nothing

[mtutiger]

4 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Rosenthal specifically criticizes Harris multiple times for not getting anything for the best pitcher on the market who, if healthy, is walking away for nothing

Rosenthal's piece spreads the blame around as opposed to just entirely sticking it to Scott Harris, so I suspect that may be what he's getting at.

[oblong]

It shows the difference of a national writer who looks at from a broader perspective rather than local fans/media who only look at it from one team's perspective.  

[gehringer_2]

14 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

The fact that the reality may be more complicated than what came out of the initial reaction to this happening by Tigers fans does not inherently make it suspicious, no.

And Gene Mato's statement last night, at least in my view, would suggest that Rosenthal's reporting isn't that far off what actually happened (if at all)

LOL - Correct read: "Family is important but not so important that it would not have taken second place if there had been time to get the Dodgers to kick in more $$"

OK - more charitably "more time" could have be read to mean more time to arrange a 3-way that would would have sent ERod East and some other player West, but I'm not that charitable.

[Tiger337]

8 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Rosenthal's piece spreads the blame around as opposed to just entirely sticking it to Scott Harris, so I suspect that may be what he's getting at.

That is fair.  GMing is hard, but it was Harris' job to get something for Rodriguez and he didn't get it done so he has to take his share of the blame.  If the same thing happened to Avila, there is no question that everybody would be blaming Avila.   

[oblong]

I don't know that getting something for him was his job.  His job is to improve the ballclub and if someone else wasn't offering something he felt improved the ballclub then it's his job to not make that move.

"Improve the ballclub" is a broad term that can mean both player personnel and business considerations.  Keeping a good player on the team isn't a bad outcome.  Trading ERod was an objective assigned by fans and media but not necessarily by his actual bosses.

 

 

[mtutiger]

9 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

That is fair.  GMing is hard, but it was Harris' job to get something for Rodriguez and he didn't get it done so he has to take his share of the blame.  If the same thing happened to Avila, there is no question that everybody would be blaming Avila.   

This is fair as well, I just think there was so much focus on assigning blame over the past 24 hours that people really weren't thinking about how to explain what happened. Why it all happened.

This is kinda what bothers me.... it doesn't matter if it's Harris or Avila or whoever, just looking at the outcome and assigning blame while not thinking about the process that lead to said outcome and understanding it misses the mark IMO

Rosenthal provided at least some additional context, that at least one other avenue was explored (via three way trade) and that the market, past LA, may not have been as robust for ERod's services.

Edited August 3, 2023 by mtutiger

[Sports_Freak]

33 minutes ago, casimir said:

If he pitches clean and healthy to finish the season and for some reason he opts in, does his trade value increase because of the known contract control or does it decrease because of the incidents?  Or to what degree do these variables factor in?

If he pitches this good and stays healthy and then opts in, his contract would be a bargain. It would have to make him very valuable. At least, IMO.

[oblong]

1 hour ago, Jim Cowan said:

Hey look, there's Meryl Streep in a baseball uniform.

Unsurprisingly,  he's a pretty good baseball player, having played in the Intercounty League as a teenager.

I always like to point out that Gretzky said his dream was to play SS for the Detroit Tigers.

So he wanted to be Alan Trammell.  Wonder if Tram knows that?

On a similar note, last week after a game a friend and I got to talking about drummers, then that led to Rush, then Geddy Lee.... and we wondered if he used to be a Tigers fan since he came up before the Blue Jays existed.  I know he's a huge baseball fan and has maybe the largest collection of memorabilia outside of the baseball HOF. He made a large donation to the Negro League Museum.

[gehringer_2]

17 minutes ago, oblong said:

I don't know that getting something for him was his job.  His job is to improve the ballclub and if someone else wasn't offering something he felt improved the ballclub then it's his job to not make that move.

"Improve the ballclub" is a broad term that can mean both player personnel and business considerations.  Keeping a good player on the team isn't a bad outcome.  Trading ERod was an objective assigned by fans and media but not necessarily by his actual bosses.

The book isn't closed on ERod until this season ends. Harris can still salvage ERod's roster value if he gets him to opt in even it that mean offerring some kind of extension, as long as that extension doesn't leave him untradeable, in which case you either get his performance or trade a now controlled player for a good return. If ERod walks, then Harris rightfully should be hammered for getting nothing.

[holygoat]

19 minutes ago, oblong said:

I don't know that getting something for him was his job.  His job is to improve the ballclub and if someone else wasn't offering something he felt improved the ballclub then it's his job to not make that move.

"Improve the ballclub" is a broad term that can mean both player personnel and business considerations.  Keeping a good player on the team isn't a bad outcome.  Trading ERod was an objective assigned by fans and media but not necessarily by his actual bosses.

 

 

Yeah, I'm not down with the "Harris had to get something for E-Rod" argument. Well, no, not if what's being offered is Dawal Lugo 2.0, and after E-Rod pulled his stunt other GMs would likely reassess his value to their team and adjust their offers accordingly. I didn't like that Avila gave good players away for garbage, and I'm not going to criticize Harris for not doing the same.

[Tiger337]

Quote

 

I don't know that getting something for him was his job.  His job is to improve the ballclub and if someone else wasn't offering something he felt improved the ballclub then it's his job to not make that move.

"Improve the ballclub" is a broad term that can mean both player personnel and business considerations.  Keeping a good player on the team isn't a bad outcome.  Trading ERod was an objective assigned by fans and media but not necessarily by his actual bosses.

 

11 minutes ago, holygoat said:

Yeah, I'm not down with the "Harris had to get something for E-Rod" argument. Well, no, not if what's being offered is Dawal Lugo 2.0, and after E-Rod pulled his stunt other GMs would likely reassess his value to their team and adjust their offers accordingly. I didn't like that Avila gave good players away for garbage, and I'm not going to criticize Harris for not doing the same.

It was a difficult process due to the nature of his contract, but I have got to believe that there other teams that wanted a pitcher of Rodriguez's caliber and would have returned something of value.  I think the problem was figuring out to make the contract work.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Tiger337

[mtutiger]

11 minutes ago, holygoat said:

Yeah, I'm not down with the "Harris had to get something for E-Rod" argument. Well, no, not if what's being offered is Dawal Lugo 2.0, and after E-Rod pulled his stunt other GMs would likely reassess his value to their team and adjust their offers accordingly. I didn't like that Avila gave good players away for garbage, and I'm not going to criticize Harris for not doing the same.

Yup.

[Edman85]

Those other teams went in another direction. If this was done Monday night and Rodriguez changed his mind Tuesday as the deal was being finalized, I don't see how you can quickly do a backup deal at that point.

Maybe, going forward, do deals with guys with no-trade clauses a couple days before the deadline so you can move onto Plan B? But still, it sounds like Rodriguez's agent moved the goal post.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Edman85

[mtutiger]

3 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Those other teams went in another direction. If this was done Monday night and Rodriguez changed his mind Tuesday as the deal was being finalized, I don't see how you can quickly do a backup deal at that point.

Thinking of Baltimore, who was often thought of as an alternate destination and who completed the Jack Flaherty deal shortly after it was revealed that the ERod deal was dead, I'd be surprised if that deal wasn't completed or well on it's way to be completed by the time ERod changed his mind at the 11th hour as well. Assuming that the reported timeline of events is accurate.

Edited August 3, 2023 by mtutiger

[Tiger337]

3 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Those other teams went in another direction. If this was done Monday night and Rodriguez changed his mind Tuesday as the deal was being finalized, I don't see how you can quickly do a backup deal at that point.

Maybe, going forward, do deals with guys with no-trade clauses a couple days before the deadline so you can move onto Plan B? But still, it sounds like Rodriguez's agent moved the goal post.

It's all speculation and hypotheticals at this point, but this was my thought.