2023 Trade Deadline

[mtutiger]

16 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Maybe, going forward, do deals with guys with no-trade clauses a couple days before the deadline so you can move onto Plan B? But still, it sounds like Rodriguez's agent moved the goal post.

Because the Dodgers were heavily involved in the JV sweepstakes (and presumably would not have traded for ERod if they had won the JV sweepstakes), I'm not sure how easy this would have been to get done earlier in this case.

[chasfh]

My main takeaway from all this is that Eduardo Rodriguez is completely full of sht. He and his agent at the very least tried to get an extra 1/20 so he could stay in LA for 4-1/2 years, and when the deal didn't land the exact way he wanted to, he threw his family under the bus to dodge criticism for the real reason he blocked the trade. Calling him a mere flake strikes me as generous. I think he's a weasel.

Now I am questioning the reasons behind his whole ghosting incident, which he also claimed to be about his family. Not for nothing, the team had fallen to 13-25 in his final start before he bailed and was well in last place, which nobody expected to happen after the prior season and the free agent signings, so who knows what was going on in that clubhouse.

[RandyMarsh]

The white Sox also threw a monkey wrench into things by saying that Cease was available only to pull him away shortly before the deadline. I could see a team targeting him and JV first and only going to Erod as a last ditch option.

[Tiger337]

2 hours ago, kdog said:

They will hope and pray that Erod opts out and wipe their hands of him for good. He and his agent are not reliable enough to count on.

I am not interested in bringing him back.

I still hope he opts in because he is a good pitcher and that would be a good three-year contract for the Tigers.  It would also be easier to move him at next year's deadline with no opt out involved and 2 1/2 years remaining.  

[mtutiger]

1 minute ago, Tiger337 said:

I still hope he opts in because he is a good pitcher and that would be a good three-year contract for the Tigers.  It would also be easier to move him at next year's deadline with no opt out involved and 2 1/2 years remaining.  

Yeah, I'd be fine with him opting in. I'll still cheer for him and wish him success as long as he's a Tiger.

But as far as extending or giving him more money, after reading Rosenthal's article, he can go find that somewhere else as far as I'm concerned.

[RandyMarsh]

Honestly I wouldn't be totally against adding 1/20 if I knew that would get him to opt in. He's likely not going to be as good as he was at the start of the year but he should still be a solid mid rotation guy with potential to be better for the next few years and were likely going to be in the market for somebody like that anyway. 

[Tiger337]

14 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Yeah, I'd be fine with him opting in. I'll still cheer for him and wish him success as long as he's a Tiger.

But as far as extending or giving him more money, after reading Rosenthal's article, he can go find that somewhere else as far as I'm concerned.

I have changed my thoughts on possibly extending him. I don't necessarily want him gone because he's a difficult person.  That's not a concern of mine, but extending him feels unnecessary.  I want them to add a good pitcher or two to go with Mize/Manning/Skubal and their cast of prospects, but after looking at the list of free agent pitchers again, I think they should be able to get what they need without extending Rodriguez.  

Edited August 3, 2023 by Tiger337

[Tiger337]

5 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Honestly I wouldn't be totally against adding 1/20 if I knew that would get him to opt in. He's likely not going to be as good as he was at the start of the year but he should still be a solid mid rotation guy with potential to be better for the next few years and were likely going to be in the market for somebody like that anyway. 

yeah, I wouldn't be totally against it, but it may be better to let him opt out and see what they can get in free agency.  

[gehringer_2]

46 minutes ago, Edman85 said:

Those other teams went in another direction. If this was done Monday night and Rodriguez changed his mind Tuesday as the deal was being finalized, I don't see how you can quickly do a backup deal at that point.

Maybe, going forward, do deals with guys with no-trade clauses a couple days before the deadline so you can move onto Plan B? But still, it sounds like Rodriguez's agent moved the goal post.

I go back the fact that Harris wasn't here during the ERod saga last year - maybe if he had been he would have been more circumspect in dealing with ERod's camp and thus would have limited his negotiations to teams that ERod couldn't veto. Sacrifice a little return for certainty your deal goes through. He put himself into the hands of people he trusted but should not have. I can accept a rookie getting burned once. It should never happen again.

[LongLiveMaroth]

2 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

yeah, I wouldn't be totally against it, but it may be better to let him opt out and see what they can get in free agency.  

OK looking at next years SP class it isn't earth-shattering but there are some solid SP's that even if E-Rod opts out we should be able to get someone. 

 

Starting pitcher: Shohei Ohtani, Clayton Kershaw, Aaron Nola, Blake Snell, Julio Urías, Eduardo Rodriguez (opt-out), Lucas Giolito, Sonny Gray, Marcus Stroman (opt-out), Jordan Montgomery, Jack Flaherty, Lance Lynn (club option), Kenta Maeda, Charlie Morton (club option), Alex Cobb (club option), Kyle Hendricks (club option), Seth Lugo (player option), Rich Hill, Corey Kluber (club option), Hyun Jin Ryu, Luis Severino,  Zack Greinke, Johnny Cueto (club option), Carlos Carrasco, Mike Clevinger (mutual option), Germán Márquez (club option), Wade Miley (mutual option), Noah Syndergaard, Michael Wacha (club and player options), Andrew Heaney (opt-out),  Tyler Mahle, Sean Manaea (opt-out),  Frankie Montas, Jake Odorizzi, Ross Stripling (opt-out), Alex Wood.

 

 

[RandyMarsh]

We could prob find a stop gap for next year but Erod is still young enough that he should still be effective for atleast the next 3 years and since we don't have a ton of promising arms on the farm having that steady effective veteran in the rotation is something we're gonna need in the coming years so instead of going out and paying 15-20 million every year on guy(s) you hope can fill that role we could just have him for then 4 years at that same rate and not worry about it.

Also even with that extension his contract wouldn't be totally out of line so we should have no problem trading him if we ever feel the need to..... assuming he wouldn't block it again. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by RandyMarsh

[gehringer_2]

4 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I can accept a rookie getting burned once. It should never happen again.

And I will give Harris credit that he has kept his absolute cool in public. He hasn't whined or slammed anyone even though he has to be madder than hell. It's a good sign that he appears to have the discipline to avoid making the poor situation worse.

[Tigermojo]

Probably go after Boyd and Lorenzen types again. Too bad Boyd was injured because he might have brought back young talent at the deadline. I am happy with the return for Lorenzen and he seemed really happy with his time with the Tigers.

[Tiger337]

4 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

We could prob find a stop gap for next year but Erod is still young enough that he should still be effective for atleast the next 3 years and since we don't have a ton of promising arms on the farm having that steady effective veteran in the rotation is something we're gonna need in the coming years so instead of going out and paying 15-20 million every year on guy(s) you hope can fill that role we could just have him for then 4 years at that same rate and not worry about it.

 

Ideally, they get one guy for multiple years plus another Lorenzen/Boyd type.  I don't know if they are ready for that commitment, but that is my hope.  

[Edman85]

13 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I go back the fact that Harris wasn't here during the ERod saga last year - maybe if he had been he would have been more circumspect in dealing with ERod's camp and thus would have limited his negotiations to teams that ERod couldn't veto. Sacrifice a little return for certainty your deal goes through. He put himself into the hands of people he trusted but should not have. I can accept a rookie getting burned once. It should never happen again.

Harris wasn't, but if Menzin is still the #2, he was. As were Hinch and Fetter. Harris wasn't blind to what happened last year.

[mtutiger]

26 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I go back the fact that Harris wasn't here during the ERod saga last year - maybe if he had been he would have been more circumspect in dealing with ERod's camp and thus would have limited his negotiations to teams that ERod couldn't veto. 

A couple of points:

• Other teams that were suitors for ERod's services may well have been on that no-trade list.... by taking those teams off the table, perhaps it limited the amount of options they had to deal him off even more than we realize.
• How often are deals actually killed via a no-trade clause? They appear to be mostly used as leverage for players to extract more out of teams, but I honestly cannot recall a similar incident of a player actually killing a deal like this. Even if ERod's a headcase, I'm not sure that, in and of itself, you just limit yourself for an event that is unlikely to occur and yes, I doubt very few, including the fans who are currently the loudest about how this went down anticipated this playing out this way.
• If there weren't other teams who were making acceptable offers or providing the value that the Dodgers appeared to have been willing to provide, why not make the 'calculated risk' to go for the best possible return as opposed to just accepting something that team considered substandard?

Edited August 3, 2023 by mtutiger

[chasfh]

51 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I still hope he opts in because he is a good pitcher and that would be a good three-year contract for the Tigers.  It would also be easier to move him at next year's deadline with no opt out involved and 2 1/2 years remaining.  

After what’s coming out about this year, I’m not so sure the market will be so robust for him next year either, even with cost certainty.

I’m not so sure I want him to opt in, either. If Scott Harris is truly trying to remake the entire culture of the organization, having a weaselly malcontent among us for the next three years isn’t going to help that along much.

[chasfh]

11 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

A throuple of points:

😉

[CMRivdogs]

31 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I go back the fact that Harris wasn't here during the ERod saga last year - maybe if he had been he would have been more circumspect in dealing with ERod's camp and thus would have limited his negotiations to teams that ERod couldn't veto. Sacrifice a little return for certainty your deal goes through. He put himself into the hands of people he trusted but should not have. I can accept a rookie getting burned once. It should never happen again.

At the same time you would think he would have conversations with the powers that be (Hinch, other front office personnel, etc) about what actually transpired last year (regarding his going AWOL and not communicating for extended periods). I think he went for and thought he had the best deal and assurances only to see it go south at the last minute.

TBH I've situations like that before, you make a hire only to have them back out the morning they're supposed to start. Or take a job only to find out after giving notice that they've moved on to someone else.

 

[buddha]

27 minutes ago, Tigermojo said:

Probably go after Boyd and Lorenzen types again. Too bad Boyd was injured because he might have brought back young talent at the deadline. I am happy with the return for Lorenzen and he seemed really happy with his time with the Tigers.

maybe even deal boyd for gleyber torres!

[oblong]

36 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

And I will give Harris credit that he has kept his absolute cool in public. He hasn't whined or slammed anyone even though he has to be madder than hell. It's a good sign that he appears to have the discipline to avoid making the poor situation worse.

There's people on twitter who legit believe that Harris cares what they think.

 

[Tiger337]

16 minutes ago, chasfh said:

After what’s coming out about this year, I’m not so sure the market will be so robust for him next year either, even with cost certainty.

I’m not so sure I want him to opt in, either. If Scott Harris is truly trying to remake the entire culture of the organization, having a weaselly malcontent among us for the next three years isn’t going to help that along much.

When it comes to building a team culture, I leave that totally up to the team.  I don't think that is something fans really know about.  The players may very well like Rodriguez and be sympathetic to whatever his problems are. 

The Tigers have a history of malcontents, who were important parts of some great teams.  Two notable examples are Ty Cobb and Denny McLain.     

Edited August 3, 2023 by Tiger337

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Edman85 said:

Harris wasn't, but if Menzin is still the #2, he was. As were Hinch and Fetter. Harris wasn't blind to what happened last year.

I'm trying to be generous. Entertaining thoughts that he is incompetent this early in his tenure is too depressing. 😟

[SoCalTiger]

As usual it all about the $$$$. Just be man enough and say it instead of hiding under skirts. Pathetic. Obviously Harris and Detroit want him gone because 20 million added to his contract is still very reasonable but that was not offered and even the Dodgers with more cash than any team and desperate for a starter didn't offer that because they also were hoping for the opt out if they made the deal. 

Erod and his sleazy agent have made a mess of his future options. Either stay in Detroit for under market money            (which should be ok to his family since they are happy in Detroit ) or enter the market with many other choices and none of them with the baggage. 

I'm ok with Harris on this but if he gives him more money then he's a fool unless in return the no trade list option and opt out is taken away.

[SoCalTiger]

11 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

I'm trying to be generous. Entertaining thoughts that he is incompetent this early in his tenure is too depressing. 😟

I think, IMO , we have a super solid POP in Scot Harris this situation not withstanding but he is looking farther out than we probably like as in 2026 or later. Drafting  high school kids and swapping out 28 year old catchers for 22 year olds assuming Rogers for Dalton Rushing tends to indicate as much.