2023 Trade Deadline

[Tiger337]

7 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

At the end of the day as well, I said this at some point recently, a lot of this comes down to the tendency of this current regime to tightly control information. They probably more legit reasons for doing what they did here, whether one agrees with them or not, but that's also not publicly available information.... I'm sure in terms of the trade, there are benefits from that, but in terms of media and PR, it leaves a vacuum to be filled that the Tigers beat writers and fanbase are more than willing to fill. Often rooted in speculation rather than anything concrete.

There are always things going on behind the scenes that fans don't know about and they are more informed than us.  That was true even with Avila.  However, that does not mean everything they do is in my interests, nor does is mean that they never make mistakes.  

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

However, that does not mean everything they do is in my interests, nor does is mean that they never make mistakes.  

Nobody has ever said that. 

But if Candelario was brought back, and then proceeded to go out and suck this year, I highly doubt anyone would be be suggesting that not bringing him back would have been a mistake.

And yes, after the season he had in 2022, one where he was a big part of the problem, that was within the realm of possibility of outcomes.

Edited July 7, 2023 by mtutiger

[LongLiveMaroth]

Man, we are spending a lot of time discussing the trade value/signability of someone not on the 2023 Tigers. 

[Tiger337]

 

49 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Nobody has ever said that. 

 

Not explicitly.

 

[Shinzaki]

The day we stop discussing Candelario is the day I will declare the rebuild to be over...when your team is winning, the small issues no longer matter

 

[SoCalTiger]

6 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I'll take the player having the better year.  If he doesn't fit in the future, then trade him.  

 

Would you offer him 4 years and 40 to 50 million this off season ?

[Tiger337]

2 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

Would you offer him 4 years and 40 to 50 million this off season ?

No, I wouldn't offer him 4 years.  He is better than what they have, but not worthy of a long-term deal.   

Edited July 7, 2023 by Tiger337

[SoCalTiger]

3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

No, I wouldn't offer him 4 years.  

I think that was part of Harris thinking, I'm not signing him long term anyway,  but your correct he has played much better than Harris anticipated also and the trade bounty is a missed opportunity.

I would not have retained him and I was wrong also.

[KL2]

On 7/2/2023 at 10:10 AM, Sports_Freak said:

Schoop had a guaranteed contract. Tigers aren't cutting anyone they have to pay or paying anyone to stay.

Whoops

[SoCalTiger]

Love it. Marisnick stays. Harris made a good decision. 

[Jim Cowan]

Devil take the hindmost.  First Maton, now Schoop.  Who is the worst player on the team now?  Toss-up between Marisnick and Haase I guess.

Harris does a lot of things right.

[Tigermojo]

14 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

Devil take the hindmost.  First Maton, now Schoop.  Who is the worst player on the team now?  Toss-up between Marisnick and Haase I guess.

Harris does a lot of things right.

Maybe Harris can find a lefty back up catcher somewhere. Haase is experiencing a major power outage.

[Jim Cowan]

8 minutes ago, Tigermojo said:

Maybe Harris can find a lefty back up catcher somewhere. Haase is experiencing a major power outage.

Are there any lefty hitting catchers out there?  Ernie Whitt?  Ron Hassey?  I have to confess, I don't follow the rest of the league closely enough anymore to know anything about players on the other teams.

[casimir]

23 hours ago, mtutiger said:

Incidentally, I believe the bolded could be a reason they didn't bring Candy back..... Harris/Hinch value versatility, and Candelario isn't versatile.

Maybe despite whatever bounce back upside he may have had, they didn't see him as part of the long term picture and moved on.... which is fine.

That's an interesting point, although he has played 1B in the past and he is a switch hitter.

[Tenacious D]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

That's an interesting point, although he has played 1B in the past and he is a switch hitter.

Yes, and given the dearth of 1B in the organization, having someone to plug in there in the event of a Tork injury or implosion might have been helpful.

However, I was OK with Candy not being rewarded with a salary increase after hitting .217 in 2022.

[casimir]

21 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Yes, and given the dearth of 1B in the organization, having someone to plug in there in the event of a Tork injury or implosion might have been helpful.

However, I was OK with Candy not being rewarded with a salary increase after hitting .217 in 2022.

The situation stinks, but it is what it is.  Candelario is posting a season that fits within the confines of what he has shown in his somewhat inconsistent past.  He's at an age which is generally considered around prime production.  His likely salary wouldn't have been ridiculous had it not been for his dismal 2022.  Aside from 1B (which is kind of a minor point), the 2023 Tiger 3B production specifically and 2023 Tiger offense as a whole has been pathetic.

At the time the decision was made, I fully understood the risk/reward being somewhere around a coin flip.  Yet here we are now and its easy to look at numbers without using proper context of time and shrug shoulders and complain why the Tigers made such a foolish mistake.

Sometimes these decisions work out.  Sometimes they don't.

[Tenacious D]

13 minutes ago, casimir said:

Sometimes these decisions work out.  Sometimes they don't.

See Meadows for Paredes. That was a trade I celebrated when it was made.

[Toddwert]

11 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

Devil take the hindmost.  First Maton, now Schoop.  Who is the worst player on the team now?  Toss-up between Marisnick and Haase I guess.

Harris does a lot of things right.

It’s easy to know who bad players are … heck we all know who has to go … ill be happy when he brings in players that are a huge improvement over who we have so far its been small improvements 

[casimir]

2 hours ago, Tenacious D said:

See Meadows for Paredes. That was a trade I celebrated when it was made.

I think the majority of folks here were in favor. I know no one predicted the results for both sides of the deal.

[RatkoVarda]

not a big fan of Bowden ($), but mentions the usual suspects: Erod, Lorenzen, Foley, Lange, Baez

https://theathletic.com/4689336/2023/07/14/mlb-trade-deadline-teams-needs-buyers-sellers/?source=dailyemail&campaign=601983

[Tenacious D]

Baez is interesting.  Zero value as is, but would you be in favor of the Tigers attaching a prospect (i.e., anyone not named Colt Keith or Max Clark) in order to entice a team to pick up the balance of his contract?  I would.  I could live with Zach Short for the balance of the season, and let Harris and team identify a mid-long term solution during the offseason.

[RatkoVarda]

moving Baez is only important if they are pushing up against Ilitch's payroll max (whatever that is) and they aren't

as it stands, they may not have a $100M payroll next year, even with Baez

downgrading to Short to save some cash seems like a backwards move

[Tenacious D]

Not proposing it as just payroll savings.  It’s to get rid of a guy whose offense is in serious decline.  Short would be a band-aid to get you through this already lost season.

 

[alex]

57 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

moving Baez is only important if they are pushing up against Ilitch's payroll max (whatever that is) and they aren't

as it stands, they may not have a $100M payroll next year, even with Baez

downgrading to Short to save some cash seems like a backwards move

IMHO, it is all rather funny. People often want to sign and then if they do not work out 'entirely' quickly rid FAs. To then sign similar players, lol. FAs are always a crapshot.

Something many may still miss is that health is so underrated and therefore depth is not yet appreciated by most fans. Players who can stay on the field are hard to find (see any team). Simply, a bit of luck is involved here. The Tigs will have more injuries here in the second half (as WILL ALL teams).

Most liked the ERod & Javy moves at the time. Personally I still do. Javy is talented. He just needs to step it up a notch by means of 'focus' (I feel when games get out of hand he loses focus and patience even more). He (or anyone) needs a stronger surrounding cast that what is here currently (we all know that) and hence not to put so much pressure on one player (like in Chicago & NY), regardless of salary.

The Tigers are a MLB team, hence should have an MLB payroll. MiLB should have MiLB payroll allotments (per parent team). Point being they need to have X in payroll regardless to be competitive. You find out who is part of a nucleus, what position, what costs to add, etc.

Maybe toward year end you decide Javy moves to second IF they seek to sign another SS (ex Tim Anderson, etc.) and that right there prompts him to opt out. Or, he is ok with that and you still get a another SS (again this helps with depth as well).

Again, IMHO, Javy is quite talented. We have all seen the plays. He can hit a bit as well. He has won before. However, he has to figure out the focus & throws to first aspect a bit better.

[Tenacious D]

11 minutes ago, alex said:

IMHO, it is all rather funny. People often want to sign and then if they do not work out 'entirely' quickly rid FAs. To then sign similar players, lol. FAs are always a crapshot.

Something many may still miss is that health is so underrated and therefore depth is not yet appreciated by most fans. Players who can stay on the field are hard to find (see any team). Simply, a bit of luck is involved here. The Tigs will have more injuries here in the second half (as WILL ALL teams).

Most liked the ERod & Javy moves at the time. Personally I still do. Javy is talented. He just needs to step it up a notch by means of 'focus' (I feel when games get out of hand he loses focus and patience even more). He (or anyone) needs a stronger surrounding cast that what is here currently (we all know that) and hence not to put so much pressure on one player (like in Chicago & NY), regardless of salary.

The Tigers are a MLB team, hence should have an MLB payroll. MiLB should have MiLB payroll allotments (per parent team). Point being they need to have X in payroll regardless to be competitive. You find out who is part of a nucleus, what position, what costs to add, etc.

Maybe toward year end you decide Javy moves to second IF they seek to sign another SS (ex Tim Anderson, etc.) and that right there prompts him to opt out. Or, he is ok with that and you still get a another SS (again this helps with depth as well).

Again, IMHO, Javy is quite talented. We have all seen the plays. He can hit a bit as well. He has won before. However, he has to figure out the focus & throws to first aspect a bit better.

Sorry, but that’s a bunch of BS.  Baez is a veteran with a 1.5 year track record with us.  His defense is good enough to stay at SS, but his bat is a black hole.  He’s good because he stays healthy?

And his salary might not hurt us  next season, but soon we may want to start investing in signing core players long term, when what we’re paying him will matter.  As well as payroll considerations for future free agents.

And why bring ERod into this?  That was/is a good signing.  He’ll likely be dealt, but not to save payroll. Even if you were excited about the Baez signing at the time, it’s OK to be wrong based on his actual performance.  I have been many times (i. e., Austin Meadows), but it’s OK to cut bait when it doesn’t work out.