2023 Trade Deadline

[theroundsquare]

Bo Bichette injured in Toronto.  And the Jays need to get more RH.  I wonder if they'd have any interest in a RH SS who seems to play a lot better under the bright lights than here with the dim prospects 

[digitalpigsmuggler]

Quote

 

They are two of the better starting pitchers available, and as of late Monday night, the Tigers’ asking prices for both remained steep. One rival executive said the Tigers, “are trying to be the last man standing at the ball.” Another agreed with that assessment, saying the Tigers were, “holding a high line.”

https://theathletic.com/4738683/2023/08/01/mlb-trade-deadline-mets-orioles-yankees-tigers/

Edited August 1, 2023 by digitalpigsmuggler

[LongLiveMaroth]

A lot of talk about how JV is holding up the pitching market as basically E-Rod is seen as the secondary prize to whichever team(s) are unable to get him if he is moved at all. 

[Tiger337]

Why is it harder to find a good player at third base than second base?  You wouldn't know that from the current crop of players.  It seems about equal.  

[gehringer_2]

54 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

JV might be the reason the Tigers haven't traded yet, for sure.

I hope Harris's memory goes back far enough to remember that JV might hold his decision until 1 minute before 'midnight' again. If you're waiting for JV you may wait yourself right past the deadline.

[Tenacious D]

6 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

this is important. Harris did bring in some IF's but we've seen none of them are adequate 3Bs on the defensive side. (even putting aside hitting issues). To me it's not moving on from Candelario per se that's a mistake, it's moving on but failing to find and a replacemnet even as good at the 2022 Candelario that made it a mistake.

Maybe they felt like Maton could be a stopgap and didn’t want to commit to anyone beyond 2023, with Malloy and Keith looming.

[gehringer_2]

12 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Maybe they felt like Maton could be a stopgap and didn’t want to commit to anyone beyond 2023, with Malloy and Keith looming.

This could be well be true - but I'd counter that given that Malloy was seen so quickly to be a bust at 3b that doesn't say much about their evaluation skills, and likewise, there wasn't really much going into this season that said the chances of Keith staying at 3B were very high either.

Edited August 1, 2023 by gehringer_2

[mtutiger]

2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

To me it's not moving on from Candelario per se that's a mistake, it's moving on but failing to find and a replacemnet even as good at the 2022 Candelario that made it a mistake.

Yeah, this is the nuance that I think largely elides the conversation.

And it makes one wonder if they did end up with a better option than what they have had (be it Maton performing better than he has to-date for the balance of the season or, assuming they had made other attempts to land a 3B, found someone else who came in and performed well) whether people would still view it as a mistake.

That tends to be why I push back on this topic in particular - it's not as if they had the option to tender Candelario after seeing the free agent market or trade market develop a bit.... they had to do it before the entire thing got off the ground. Risk was inherent, but it was understandable. And I just suspect that some of the folks who deem it a mistake now, frankly, wouldn't feel that way if things had played out differently for everything that followed in the 2022/23 offseason.

[casimir]

1 minute ago, Tenacious D said:

Maybe they felt like Maton could be a stopgap and didn’t want to commit to anyone beyond 2023, with Malloy and Keith looming.

That's kind of what I am thinking.  There was probably some hope for Malloy to take over at 3B when he was acquired with Keith somewhere later on down the line.  But in theory, Candelario could have been he interim 3B for 2023, so ....

[chasfh]

8 hours ago, Cruzer1 said:

He's also a free agent at the end of the year. He's going to be fine.

Jeimer couldn't give less of a sht about "that's all you could get for me".

[gehringer_2]

12 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Why is it harder to find a good player at third base than second base?  You wouldn't know that from the current crop of players.  It seems about equal.  

Don't you think it's a higher level combination of skills? You have less reaction time than at 2nd, need to be able to dive then get up and make a SS quality throw, and you're expected to hit for power. I think the fielding std is higher for a 3b than it used to be. Back in the day a 3b with a decent bat was only expect to stand at the line and try to prevent doubles. Now they need to be able to play D all the way out to SS on the soft shift but are still expected to hit 20+ HR. 

Edited August 1, 2023 by gehringer_2

[mtutiger]

3 minutes ago, casimir said:

That's kind of what I am thinking.  There was probably some hope for Malloy to take over at 3B when he was acquired with Keith somewhere later on down the line.  But in theory, Candelario could have been he interim 3B for 2023, so ....

I still think that people underestimate how much Candy's lack of versatility around the diamond impacts the thinking here. 

People are free to disagree with it or how it may have led to the decision, but I really do think that if they are going to countenance having a placeholder 3B, Harris and AJ both seem to prefer one who can move around the diamond and play multiple positions. Even beyond Maton, you can see that in who they have brought in since (ie. McKinstry, Ibanez, etc.)

[Tenacious D]

Thread cleanse 

 

[casimir]

Just now, mtutiger said:

I still think that people underestimate how much Candy's lack of versatility around the diamond impacts the thinking here. 

People are free to disagree with it or how it may have led to the decision, but I really do think that if they are going to countenance having a placeholder 3B, Harris and AJ both seem to prefer one who can move around the diamond and play multiple positions. Even beyond Maton, you can see that in who they have brought in since (ie. McKinstry, Ibanez, etc.)

Perhaps, but Candelario had played some 1B along the way.  Who plays 1B when Torkelson sits?  Ibanez and Nevin have a pair of games each this season.  That's it, that's the list.

[casimir]

2 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Thread cleanse 

 

Don't they want Cisnero and Shreve, too?

[mtutiger]

2 minutes ago, casimir said:

Perhaps, but Candelario had played some 1B along the way.  Who plays 1B when Torkelson sits?  Ibanez and Nevin have a pair of games each this season.  That's it, that's the list.

This may be the point you are making, but Torkelson isn't getting many days off in the field... particularly with Miguel on the roster. So having 1B on your resume doesn't mean as much as 2B or even SS would.

Edited August 1, 2023 by mtutiger

[Tenacious D]

[casimir]

Just now, mtutiger said:

This may be the point you are making, but Torkelson isn't getting many days off in the field... particularly with Miguel on the roster. So having 1B on your resume doesn't mean as much as 2B or even SS.

That's true.  Cabrera on the roster limits the depth chart and platooning ability.

Miami was pretty happy with Cabrera in town.  Don't they need a RHH PH?

[romad1]

Any chance we can trade Javy to the Brewers if Bichette is hurt?   Please and thank you?

[casimir]

Just now, Tenacious D said:

Sure, the Tigers take that list in exchange of Rodriguez, Cisnero, and Shreve.  We all good with this?

[casimir]

Just now, romad1 said:

Any chance we can trade Javy to the Brewers if Bichette is hurt?   Please and thank you?

About as much chance as sending him to the Clippers because Kawhi is always hurt.

[mtutiger]

8 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Thread cleanse 

 

I take anything Heyman says with mountains of salt, but they've always made the most sense as a trading partner for Eddie.

[romad1]

2 minutes ago, casimir said:

About as much chance as sending him to the Clippers because Kawhi is always hurt.

You know, in a playoff chase, i'd bet Javy would be elite.  He's just wasted on our team.  All that talent and lack of focus is wasted on a guy who needs special reasons to get focused.   Did I mention he lacks focus?

[oblong]

5 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I take anything Heyman says with mountains of salt, but they've always made the most sense as a trading partner for Eddie.

I think Heyman is a shill for players and agents.  They use him and he plays along.

[Cruzer1]

34 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

this is important. Harris did bring in some IF's but we've seen none of them are adequate 3Bs on the defensive side. (even putting aside hitting issues). To me it's not moving on from Candelario per se that's a mistake, it's moving on but failing to find and a replacemnet even as good at the 2022 Candelario that made it a mistake.

I'm convinced that Keith should be the future 3b for the Tigers.