2023 Trade Deadline

[mtutiger]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

And maybe the whole thing could have been avoided if Harris says: "Eduardo, have you spoken to your wife?"

Now sure, that's pure invention, but there is a kernel of truth in the fact that part of successful leadership is to think for your subordinates  of the things they could be forgeting.

Speaking from my experience as an employee, I'd rather my supervisor not ask something like that, tbh.

Edited August 2, 2023 by mtutiger

[Shinzaki]

I find it easier to believe that Rodriguez changed his mind than Scott Harris is an idiot

[RatkoVarda]

prediction: he opts out and signs with San Diego

[SoCalTiger]

Scot Harris and Andrew Friedman got sand bagged. Simple as that. As such Harris will wait to see if Erod opts in or opts out. There will be no extra $$ offered by Detroit. If Erod surprises by opting in my bet he will be traded soon thereafter. Two years in a row Erod’s best curve was off field. 
 

 

[chasfh]

I wonder whether the deal might have been predicated on the idea that Eduardo would waive his opt-out to stay with the Dodgers for three more years—which, coincidentally, would lead to the optimum haul for us, as well as cost certainty for the Dodgers—and something happened in Eduardo’s world that nixed that. Maybe his wife, like someone said. Or maybe he would have been OK with two months in LA but not three more years. Just another possibility to speculate on. Who knows.

[chasfh]

Jeimer Candelario went 4-for-5 for the Cubs tonight.

🦆🦆🦆

[gehringer_2]

37 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Speaking from my experience as an employee, I'd rather my supervisor not ask something like that, tbh.

OK - lets say it's

"Eduardo - are you certain that there is nothing that hasn't been considered that might prevent you being comfortable (seems to be the term of art here)  with a move to LA?"     

Edited August 2, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Mr.TaterSalad]

32 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

Scot Harris and Andrew Friedman got sand bagged. Simple as that. As such Harris will wait to see if Erod opts in or opts out. There will be no extra $$ offered by Detroit. If Erod surprises by opting in my bet he will be traded soon thereafter. Two years in a row Erod’s best curve was off field. 
 

 

Isn't it Harris fault for allowing himself to be sandbagged? Shouldn't ERod be the first person he talks with to get a clear understanding of where he will and won't go? Isn't that on Harris to do before even considering a call to the Dodgers GM?

[holygoat]

2 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Isn't it Harris fault for allowing himself to be sandbagged? Shouldn't ERod be the first person he talks with to get a clear understanding of where he will and won't go? Isn't that on Harris to do before even considering a call to the Dodgers GM?

So you're positive that the story that Harris had the understanding that E-Rod would accept a trade to LA, then changed his mind when DET and LA agreed on a deal is a false? You're sure of this? 

[Tigermojo]

It's definitely on Harris, but I do think it's in bad taste for LA to reveal the deal. They want to make themselves look good by making Harris look bad but it also makes it seem like the player is the bad guy. Maybe that's one of the reasons Erod doesn't want to go there. They will throw people under the bus to make themselves look good. I used to have a boss like that and of course he got promoted by blaming things on everyone else. Not very professional on LA's part.

[mtutiger]

3 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Isn't it Harris fault for allowing himself to be sandbagged? Shouldn't ERod be the first person he talks with to get a clear understanding of where he will and won't go? Isn't that on Harris to do before even considering a call to the Dodgers GM?

As has been discussed in this thread already, it's entirely possible that ERod may have been on board with this initially and ended up changing his mind as the process went on.

Outside of forcing him into a separate contractual obligation to waive his no-trade clause on his existing contract with the Tigers, I'm not entirely clear how you remove the part of the process where you have to take the player at their word. 

[SoCalTiger]

9 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Isn't it Harris fault for allowing himself to be sandbagged? Shouldn't ERod be the first person he talks with to get a clear understanding of where he will and won't go? Isn't that on Harris to do before even considering a call to the Dodgers GM?

Yes and I’m saying he did that before opening discussion with LA only to have Erod change his mind last minute. Hence the sand bag. 

[chasfh]

Ironically, if Eduardo stays with the Tigers, his cost certainty might make him easier to deal at next year’s deadline.

[chasfh]

23 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Isn't it Harris fault for allowing himself to be sandbagged? Shouldn't ERod be the first person he talks with to get a clear understanding of where he will and won't go? Isn't that on Harris to do before even considering a call to the Dodgers GM?

What we don’t know yet was whether Eduardo was on board with going while the deal was being done, until he wasn’t.

Dodgers PBO Andrew Friedman had some interested comments on the incident in the Athletic:

“We didn’t expect (what happened) at all,” Friedman said. “We hadn’t known one way or the other. We thought with having a lot of his ex-teammates and guys he’s played with, our place in the standings, I thought we would be very desirable. … We never got a chance to talk to Eduardo. But we talked to his agent numerous times. We respect that he had this right and he exercised it. Obviously would’ve loved for him to join what we have going here. But it’s hard for us to argue with family reasons.”

There’s a lot to unpack in this paragraph, but my takeaway is that his agent was the lead on the deal—which implies that Eduardo was in on it, since an agent who works against his client’s wishes is malpracticing—and that last minute some family-related reason killed it.

[RatkoVarda]

Harris had an opportunity to convert Rodriguez into assets that could have helped this team long term.

He failed to do so.

Yes, he was dealt a difficult hand, but he was unable to do anything with it.

I don't have the the details and I don't need to have them. I see the results: failure. Harris either trusted Rodriquez, communication broke down, had no back up plan, waited too long, burned other bridges, asked for too much from others, or something else happened in some order or some combination.

Rodriguez will walk and Ilitch will save money and the Tigers will get nothing, as Harris keeps building towards that great 2027 team.

[mtutiger]

I just want to understand what the Tigers (or the Dodgers) were supposed to do, exactly, to shelter themselves from this particular risk in a negotiation like this. Particularly if the Dodgers were the only real fit in terms of Eddie's contract.

It's easy to just put it on Harris for not asking about his wife's thoughts, but in a situation where you are relying on a party to waive a section of a contract, you can't really get around having to place some level of faith or trust in that party following through. 

The heat comes with the job, but I would like to think we are sophisticated enough around here to be more interested in why this has happened versus just immediately pointing fingers while not having all the details.

For the most part, I guess not.

Edited August 2, 2023 by mtutiger

[RatkoVarda]

What should Harris have done? Manage the situation to ensure the Tigers got a successful result.

He is paid a lot of money to do that. Harris was on notice that ERod and/or his wife and/or their marriage was difficult/strained/different. It is not a common occurrence that a player just up and leaves and team in the middle of a season, without warning or explanation, and then ghosts them when they try to make contact.

So, trust but verify. Double check. And then triple check. And have multiple fallback options in case they flake out on you once again.

[mtutiger]

2 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

What should Harris have done? Manage the situation to ensure the Tigers got a successful result.

He is paid a lot of money to do that. Harris was on notice that ERod and/or his wife and/or their marriage was difficult/strained/different. It is not a common occurrence that a player just up and leaves and team in the middle of a season, without warning or explanation, and then ghosts them when they try to make contact.

So, trust but verify. Double check. And then triple check. 

I'm not sure how double or triple checking makes it impossible for a party to a contract to change their mind at the last minute, or unexpectedly.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

Ironically, if Eduardo stays with the Tigers, his cost certainty might make him easier to deal at next year’s deadline.

 

1 hour ago, RatkoVarda said:

Rodriguez will walk

Since Mid-May his OPS against is 738 and his WHIP is 1.35. Not great, and I expect both to rise as the Tigers start to crater - both play sloppier as a team and probably do more position experiments with guys that can't field which will drive up the length of innings and pitcher stress and push up everyone's runs against. On the plus side, since they didn't move any relievers, at least there won't be additional pressure to leave starters in the game to higher run totals. In any case - I don't expect ERod to finish the year with performance numbers anywhere near as gaudy as those he began the season with, the net result of that plus last year plus what just happened today being that quite possibly he will not find the world beathing a path to his door for more than $16M/yr. 

Long story short, I think the odds are good he is our problem until this contract runs it's course.

Edited August 2, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Scottwood]

Sounds like Rodriguez agreed to the deal and then backed away right when it was about to be completed. 

[buddha]

7 hours ago, chasfh said:

Jeimer Candelario went 4-for-5 for the Cubs tonight.

🦆🦆🦆

so did everyone else.

[buddha]

wait a second, you mean the guy that disappeared for almost an entire season for "family reasons" is actually a total unreliable flake?

wow.  i'm stunned.

[casimir]

4 hours ago, Scottwood said:

Sounds like Rodriguez agreed to the deal and then backed away right when it was about to be completed. 

If this is true, were there other reasonable deals lined up?  Did any of those deals involve teams on his no trade clause?  We'll probably never know unless other GMs speak up.

[mtutiger]

9 minutes ago, casimir said:

If this is true, were there other reasonable deals lined up?  Did any of those deals involve teams on his no trade clause?  We'll probably never know unless other GMs speak up.

If there were deals lined up but the return was below what they felt he should fetch, should they have completed it?

I can tell you that I could see a world where Harris trades ERod to one of the backup plan teams and, because the other options placed a different valuation than the Dodgers, the fanbase is blaming Harris for not getting enough back for Rodriguez.

Which gets to the idea that had been discussed a couple of times yesterday... holding the line and not just selling for pennies on the dollar, ala JD Martinez

Edited August 2, 2023 by mtutiger

[casimir]

Just now, mtutiger said:

If there were deals lined up but the return was below what they felt he should fetch, should they have completed it?

I can tell you that I could see a world where Harris trades ERod to one of the backup plan teams and, because the other options lacked the interest of the Dodgers, the fanbase is blaming Harris for not getting enough back for Rodriguez.

Which gets to the idea that had been discussed a couple of times yesterday... holding the line and not just selling for pennies on the dollar.

Hence why I said reasonable.  I am fine with holding the line.  I think it needs to be done, particularly at his first trade deadline.  Cisnero and Shreve, if they were dealt for meh, so be it.  They are relievers with inconsistent histories, so that's fine.  But players of higher quality, get quality in return.  Now, they need to continue to hold the line.  Unless they completely fall apart, they need to keep Cisnero and Shreve and not allow teams to pick them up through the rest of this season for nothing.  I heard a theory about Shreve maybe being released in lieu of bringing up younger pitchers.  I don't know, seems foolish when the AAA goes into late September.

It seems odd to me that the Dodgers may have been the only team that offered anything worthwhile.  But I suppose it is possible that the timeline for those other deals fell apart once Harris thought he had a deal with the Dodgers.  Other team(s) may have pivoted to their other options.  Teams are probably scrambling around yesterday and depending upon what they have going on, they might cut bait with options that appear bleak.