2023 Trade Deadline

[Shinzaki]

Given the issues he had last season and the injury this season...adding the perception that he f'd around with the Tigers and Dodgers on this deal might damage his market value to the point opting in makes the most sense for him.

[mtutiger]

15 minutes ago, casimir said:

Hence why I said reasonable.  I am fine with holding the line.  I think it needs to be done, particularly at his first trade deadline.  Cisnero and Shreve, if they were dealt for meh, so be it.  They are relievers with inconsistent histories, so that's fine.  But players of higher quality, get quality in return.  Now, they need to continue to hold the line.  Unless they completely fall apart, they need to keep Cisnero and Shreve and not allow teams to pick them up through the rest of this season for nothing.  I heard a theory about Shreve maybe being released in lieu of bringing up younger pitchers.  I don't know, seems foolish when the AAA goes into late September.

It seems odd to me that the Dodgers may have been the only team that offered anything worthwhile.  But I suppose it is possible that the timeline for those other deals fell apart once Harris thought he had a deal with the Dodgers.  Other team(s) may have pivoted to their other options.  Teams are probably scrambling around yesterday and depending upon what they have going on, they might cut bait with options that appear bleak.

As far as Cisnero and Shreve are concerned, yeah, it would have been nice to have seen them traded but, particularly with Shreve who hasn't been all that good this year, I'm not sure that the return would have been that great.

With Eddie, the contract situation plus what happened last year could have limited his market, that seems reasonable to me. Or maybe took what Baltimore or Cincy or other possibilities and made what they would offer come in below expectations. And if that is the case, and he completed a subpar deal, I just don't think the fans would be happy there either.

But we don't have the inside info and the tendency is to just blame Scott Harris for not meeting the expectations set by the beat writers leading up to the deadline, so here we are.

Edited August 2, 2023 by mtutiger

[RandyMarsh]

It makes me wonder if Baltimore may have been an option but they pivoted to Flaherty cause of the issues with Erod and the Dodgers.

They may have worried that if he turned down a team like the Dodgers at the last moment he could potentially do the same to them and then they'd be left empty handed. 

[mtutiger]

9 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

It makes me wonder if Baltimore may have been an option but they pivoted to Flaherty cause of the issues with Erod and the Dodgers.

They may have worried that if he turned down a team like the Dodgers at the last moment he could potentially do the same to them and then they'd be left empty handed. 

Which gets to the fact that "other options" aren't contractually obligated to remain "other options" and are free to pivot to different trade pieces as well.

In the Tigers case, I think the market for JV may have been a factor too... his deal was a major logjam to getting something done, but it took a lot of time (almost 24 hours, I believe) to get that resolved. Once it did and the Dodgers were lined up, there wasn't a lot of room for error for getting it done from a time perspective.

[casimir]

25 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

As far as Cisnero and Shreve are concerned, yeah, it would have been nice to have seen them traded but, particularly with Shreve who hasn't been all that good this year, I'm not sure that the return would have been that great.

With Eddie, the contract situation plus what happened last year could have limited his market, that seems reasonable to me. Or maybe took what Baltimore or Cincy or other possibilities and made what they would offer come in below expectations. And if that is the case, and he completed a subpar deal, I just don't think the fans would be happy there either.

But we don't have the inside info and the tendency is to just blame Scott Harris for not meeting the expectations set by the beat writers leading up to the deadline, so here we are.

Well, here is how I look at it.  It stinks that the Tigers couldn't make a deal.  I don't think we know enough to accurately assign blame to anyone in particular.  We can make all of the assumptions and generalizations that we want to, some of which can be pretty plausible, but we won't know enough of the story to determine how bad some of the actors were.

[casimir]

Oh, and we're ignoring Avila for offering the contract to begin with.

[mtutiger]

1 minute ago, casimir said:

Well, here is how I look at it.  It stinks that the Tigers couldn't make a deal.  I don't think we know enough to accurately assign blame to anyone in particular.  We can make all of the assumptions and generalizations that we want to, some of which can be pretty plausible, but we won't know enough of the story to determine how bad some of the actors were.

This seems better directed at the fans who have already set the narrative on what happened and, subsequently, are calling Harris the next Bob Quinn.

[Longgone]

52 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

Given the issues he had last season and the injury this season...adding the perception that he f'd around with the Tigers and Dodgers on this deal might damage his market value to the point opting in makes the most sense for him.

He'd be a fool not to opt out.

[RandyMarsh]

On the surface he would be but ERod seems like a different type of dude, he may be the type where money isn't everything and he doesn't want to through the dog and pony show of free agency or start all over again with a new team and city especially since theres no guarantee that he is going to get a significant more amount of money. 

He may like it here and feel comfortable here and feel like he is fairly compensated so he is just content staying. 

With that said my gut tells me though that the Tigers will work out some deal with him where they either add years to his current deal or give him a raise before FA starts. 

[buddha]

12 minutes ago, Longgone said:

He'd be a fool not to opt out.

yes, but the real question is whether his wife is a fool, as it seems she is the one who makes the decisions for him.

[kdog]

31 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

This seems better directed at the fans who have already set the narrative on what happened and, subsequently, are calling Harris the next Bob Quinn.

But then some people(like me) gave deference to Bob Quinn because we believed he was competent.

[RandyMarsh]

Unless he dominates the rest of the way like he did at the start of the year I don't see how he has raised his stock much more than what we signed him for all things considered.

He was so so last year, disappeared for 2 and a half months. This year he started great but then got injured and now seems to be regressing a bit. If that keeps up how much money will a team realistically give to him factoring that all in along with being 2 years older than he was when we signed him and the whole deadline stunt?

I dont see many teams that will be willing to committ more than the 3 years that we are guaranteeing him. 

 

[oblong]

The response to this non trade has been remarkable and reveals the worst about instant news and discussion points.

Fans were ready to talk about the trade, it didn't happen, now they are pissed because they couldn't talk about it.

 

 

[mtutiger]

5 minutes ago, kdog said:

But then some people(like me) gave deference to Bob Quinn because we believed he was competent.

I'm not sure I understand why giving a little bit of deference to the team-side explanation of what went down here is a bad thing. Or is seen as some sort of personality flaw by some fans.

The existence of Bob Quinn or other bad GMs doesn't really change that for me.

[casimir]

51 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

This seems better directed at the fans who have already set the narrative on what happened and, subsequently, are calling Harris the next Bob Quinn.

Sorry, I wasn't necessarily directing that at you, nor trying to argue with you.

And I have no idea who Bob Quinn is.

[alex]

34 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

Which gets to the fact that "other options" aren't contractually obligated to remain "other options" and are free to pivot to different trade pieces as well.

In the Tigers case, I think the market for JV may have been a factor too... his deal was a major logjam to getting something done, but it took a lot of time (almost 24 hours, I believe) to get that resolved. Once it did and the Dodgers were lined up, there wasn't a lot of room for error for getting it done from a time perspective.

Sounds sensible.

Some simple speculation:

I posted late last week on one of the threads here that the NYM could throw a 'monkey wrench' into all of this by making Max and JV available. It happened, though still...

I would bet that Cincy and Balt did not make offers that SHarris felt good with (ex being what Balt gave up for JFlaherty and Cincy did almost nothing and both were said to be looking at SP). SHarris held his ground (a good thing for any future trade talks). Then JV became available near the end of the deadline and the Tigs had to wait for that to be resolved the afternoon of  because the LAD had interest. Then once JV chose Houston then the LAD had to pivot.

Maybe previously the jest was worked out with LA with an ERod deal, it was then 'OK'd on by all fronts - but when the actual time came 'something' changed - ERod/family changed their minds, LAD changed what could have been an extension approach, etc. - WHO KNOWS.

I also see that the Tigs did do a cash deal with the LAD late yesterday for Inf Eddys Leonard (top 15 prospect out of the LAD system) whom was designated for assignment I believe late last week. He 'possibly' could have been part of the agreed 'package' coming from the LAD. If nothing else it would seem the two sides were talking previously.

Again, just some speculation...

One thing I do wish to see is a more balanced approach on the player acquisition front. There is a pattern of contact middle Infs who can take a walk it seems: McKinstry, Ibanez (not too many BB here), Maton, JRizzo, NSolak, JCamargo, ZShort, Now Lee and Leonard after yesterday. Even the draft - the second and third picks. Lest not forget to look at C, OF and P as well 😉

[casimir]

Do we know who is on Rodriguez' no trade list?  Does the list remain the same if he opts in?

[casimir]

15 minutes ago, oblong said:

The response to this non trade has been remarkable and reveals the worst about instant news and discussion points.

Fans were ready to talk about the trade, it didn't happen, now they are pissed because they couldn't talk about it.

 

 

When can we go back to chatting about Candelario?

[Motor City Sonics]

33 minutes ago, buddha said:

yes, but the real question is whether his wife is a fool, as it seems she is the one who makes the decisions for him.

happy wife, happy life

[RatkoVarda]

just looked at Law's Top 20 Phillies prospect list; Lee was 4th, ahead of Crawford; not sure how the 4th best prospect is a sleeper, but he added this:

Sleeper - Lee is already a top 125-ish prospect, and a full year of similar production from him in Jersey Shore would put him squarely on the top 100.

FG and Pipeline had him at #6 on Philly's list. At present, looks like a great trade. Harris let it slip they have been after Lee for a while, so his name clearly came up in Soto talks.

[digitalpigsmuggler]

Freaking E-rod and his no trade. Sucks the Tigers are going to lose him most likely for nothing.

The Tigers could not find an east coast to unload him. It almost makes you think they did not even speak to the guy knowing he had a no trade.

Edited August 2, 2023 by digitalpigsmuggler

[mtutiger]

8 minutes ago, oblong said:

The response to this non trade has been remarkable and reveals the worst about instant news and discussion points.

They are getting absolutely zero heat for it, but I think the beat writers and national media kinda should wear this too because they were instrumental in expectation setting. Things like JP Morosi tweeting over and over again about how many teams were interested in ERod (which appears to not have been the case at all), or Boob Nightengale talking about how both Lorenzen and ERod were definitely being traded, etc. Or even just the weeks and weeks of speculation by the local beat writers.

Which kinda gets to one of the takeaways I have after a year of watching this front office: just because a writer (locally or nationally) speculates something or spreads a rumor about the Tigers, that doesn't mean they know what the hell they are talking about. In fact, I'm not really sure I can recall a transaction made under Harris where rumors and innuendo preceded the move. 

If fans don't want to end up surprised or shocked, maybe they should stop giving deference to the writers who throw out scenarios because I'm not sure they know anymore than we do, at least about possible trades or free agent moves.

[Motor City Sonics]

The fact that our "sort of" GM did not cave and accept less than he wanted is a good thing for the future.     Who knows, maybe E-Rod stays after all but even if he's gone, it's better to not accept 3 guys who'll never make a difference.  Hold firm

 

"I want one of these guys or no deal". 

Other team says  "How about these guys instead?"   

"Nope".

 

If that is what happened yesterday,   then in the future (next year) other teams will know he means it.    I mean, they aren't contending next year, even if the division is weak again.   They'll probably make it interesting for a few weeks at the end this year, get us all riled up for next season and then start out something like 6-20 again and never catch up.    Seems to be their thing now.     

It's all about '25 !

Edited August 2, 2023 by Motor City Sonics

[KL2]

8 minutes ago, digitalpigsmuggler said:

Freaking E-rod and his no trade. Sucks the Tigers are going to lose him most likely for nothing.

The Tigers could not find an east coast to unload him. It almost makes you think they did not even speak to the guy knowing he had a no trade.

A) no it doesn't

B) did anyone think he had east coast teams on his no-trade too? 

C) maybe the east coast teams offered piddily 

 

So many fans are making so many assumptions that paint Harris as nothing more than a complete baffoon. 

[KL2]

8 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

They are getting absolutely zero heat for it, but I think the beat writers and national media kinda should wear this too because they were instrumental in expectation setting. Things like JP Morosi tweeting over and over again about how many teams were interested in ERod (which appears to not have been the case at all), or Boob Nightengale talking about how both Lorenzen and ERod were definitely being traded, etc. Or even just the weeks and weeks of speculation by the local beat writers.

Which kinda gets to one of the takeaways I have after a year of watching this front office: just because a writer (locally or nationally) speculates something or spreads a rumor about the Tigers, that doesn't mean they know what the hell they are talking about. In fact, I'm not really sure I can recall a transaction made under Harris where rumors and innuendo preceded the move. 

If fans don't want to end up surprised or shocked, maybe they should stop giving deference to the writers who throw out scenarios because I'm not sure they know anymore than we do, at least about possible trades or free agent moves.

Welcome to sports journalism today. 

Where you can be wrong and there is no consequence. It's all about the latest rumor and just running with it without any vetting or consequence all in the quest for Twitter followers (hell its not even clicks anymore)