2023 Trade Deadline

[Shinzaki]

I'm a long game guy...if yesterday is an aberration..over the long haul it won't mean anything.  If it's a sign of things to come...that' a problem.  The JD Martinez trade didn't kill us...all of the other deals that were as bad...worse..or never completed did

[Tiger337]

15 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

I’m OK with the opt-out or if he fulfills his current contract.

Not cool with extending him beyond the current deal.

 

I think the only way he'll opt in is if he pitches poorly the rest of the way.  If he's worth keeping, then they'll most likely have to extend him. f he doesn't do well, then I don't want him.

I want them to attempt to be reasonably competitive next year.  To do so, they will need sign at least one good starter from a strong free agent crop this off-season.  If Rodriguez pitches well, they have the inside track to sign him before he becomes a free agent.  That might be their best chance.  

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, SoCalTiger said:

This. LAX is third world nightmare. It takes up to 30 minutes after getting there to crawl through traffic to your terminal. That’s after the nightmare of the 405. Then the TSA line ? Forget it !!

they're spending a bazillion $ for Rapid Transit to the terminals. It will be interesting to see if that cuts down congestions or not.

[chasfh]

42 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

 

I think the only way he'll opt in is if he pitches poorly the rest of the way.  If he's worth keeping, then they'll most likely have to extend him. f he doesn't do well, then I don't want him.

I would hope they already have a clear idea of how they want to move forward re Eduardo Rodriguez. I wouldn't want the decision to either sign him for six years or let him totally walk to come down to two months of out-of-the-race pitching.

[gehringer_2]

8 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I would hope they already have a clear idea of how they want to move forward re Eduardo Rodriguez. I wouldn't want the decision to either sign him for six years or let him totally walk to come down to two months of out-of-the-race pitching.

I think the story will be to what degree other teams only see this last episode as more evidence that ERod is a problem child, because if that sentiment has currency around the league and he or his agent can read that - he may decide not to test the FA waters. I have no idea but I believe it's a likely factor.

Along the same line, I would think that if he is thinking about opting out, signing up with a new agent that is highly regarded by team managements would be step one toward giving teams more confidence it was safe to deal with him.

Edited August 2, 2023 by gehringer_2

[oblong]

I’m not sure he’s worth more than his current deal.  I’m fine if it opts out and leaves.  

[Tiger337]

25 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I would hope they already have a clear idea of how they want to move forward re Eduardo Rodriguez. I wouldn't want the decision to either sign him for six years or let him totally walk to come down to two months of out-of-the-race pitching.

I was thinking about an extension before yesterday, but pitchers are delicate creatures.  It would depend on the reason for his poor performance. If his velocity was down or strikeouts were way down, that would be a problem.  

Out-of-the-race would mean little to me.  I want players to pitch well all the time.

Six years would be too long.  Four years would be reasonable for a pitcher of his caliber.  I am not sure about five.  

[Tiger337]

8 minutes ago, oblong said:

I’m not sure he’s worth more than his current deal.  I’m fine if it opts out and leaves.  

I would be fine with it too, although I think the deal is good as is.  I do want them to have enough proven pitchers to be competitive next year.  I don't want too many starts from guys like Wentz and Faedo.  

Edited August 2, 2023 by Tiger337

[SoCalTiger]

39 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

they're spending a bazillion $ for Rapid Transit to the terminals. It will be interesting to see if that cuts down congestions or not.

Doubt it. Since it’s not a political forum I will stop there. 😊

[chasfh]

44 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I was thinking about an extension before yesterday, but pitchers are delicate creatures.  It would depend on the reason for his poor performance. If his velocity was down or strikeouts were way down, that would be a problem.  

Out-of-the-race would mean little to me.  I want players to pitch well all the time.

Six years would be too long.  Four years would be reasonable for a pitcher of his caliber.  I am not sure about five.  

Well, he's got three coming, right? I would think he'd want six, or at least no less than five. That would cover ages 31 through 36.

My concerns about an extension are that (1) he does poorly right away, and keeps doing so while we keep running him out there turn after turn for X years; (2) he does OK but gets TJ and we have to replace him with a dreg from the system; (3) he flakes out on us again.

I'm mostly concerned about (1).

[SeattleMike]

1 hour ago, Shinzaki said:

I'm a long game guy...if yesterday is an aberration..over the long haul it won't mean anything.  If it's a sign of things to come...that' a problem.  The JD Martinez trade didn't kill us...all of the other deals that were as bad...worse..or never completed did

Everyone remembers the Martinez trade, which was atrocious and haunted him the rest of his tenure. From that point on I'd say, in all fairness, that his deadline deals were ok. Verlander yielded a catcher who this season ranks in the top half of regulars at his position in RC+. Getting an impact player would have been better, but as others on this board have noted rarely do these deadline deals yield that kind of talent. The other 2017 trade netted two pretty good players for practically nothing. Avila and Wilson for Paredes and Candy. In 2019 he traded Castellanos and received Lange. Not bad, considering at the time of the trade Castellanos was slumping (95 OPS+ in July) and had a rep as a bad fielder (well earned).

Later deadline trades: Greene for Wentz, who may still prove useful, Martin (with his 97 OPS+ at the time) for Castro, who, hey, is still in the league, Norris, badly damaged at the time, for Olson, who may prove more than useful, and Fulmer, for Long-Gibson, who is pitching well at AA. Yes, the Fiers trade in 2018 netted nothing, and I know I'm missing a few other clunkers. But considering the underwhelming assets Avila had to trade, I'd say he performed ok at the trade deadline, after the Martinez mess.  

He failed as a GM for many reasons, but trade deadline deals were the least of his problems and maybe weren't really a problem. 

[gehringer_2]

11 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Well, he's got three coming, right? I would think he'd want six, or at least no less than five. That would cover ages 31 through 36.

My concerns about an extension are that (1) he does poorly right away, and keeps doing so while we keep running him out there turn after turn for X years; (2) he does OK but gets TJ and we have to replace him with a dreg from the system; (3) he flakes out on us again.

I'm mostly concerned about (1).

I don't extend him to keep him. If he goes, he goes. If he stays 3 yrs is enough. If he's good, I trade him next yr or the year after once the remainder on his contract turns into an asset for a trade - i.e one to two years out.

Edited August 2, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

9 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Well, he's got three coming, right? I would think he'd want six, or at least no less than five. That would cover ages 31 through 36.

My concerns about an extension are that (1) he does poorly right away, and keeps doing so while we keep running him out there turn after turn for X years; (2) he does OK but gets TJ and we have to replace him with a dreg from the system; (3) he flakes out on us again.

I'm mostly concerned about (1).

His track record is actually pretty good and consistent as far as performance.  So, #2 would be my biggest concern as it would be with virtually every pitcher.  Can he get 5-6 years with a rich free agent crop and concerns about his flakiness?  After all, a number of smart people here are theorizing that teams didn't want him because of his contract.    

[LongLiveMaroth]

 

 

THis makes me think we were definitely getting a catcher from LAD either Rushing or Cartaya. Probably Rushing. 

 

[Jim Cowan]

I find myself not caring which course of action he chooses.

[RatkoVarda]

16 minutes ago, LongLiveMaroth said:

THis makes me think we were definitely getting a catcher from LAD either Rushing or Cartaya. Probably Rushing.

ERod and Jake would obviously have been a pretty big trade. 

[holygoat]

3 hours ago, mtutiger said:

In terms of stature and payroll, the Dodgers are in a different category than some of the other clubs that were linked to ERod. 

It is possible they were uniquely suited and more willing to take on the contract and whatever risk came with it than Baltimore or Cincinnati were.

Not only that, but it's entirely possible that Harris did have a Plan B, and that team was either spooked by E-Rod pulling out of the Dodgers trade at the last minute or knew they had more leverage and changed their offers hoping Harris would feel pressured to "at least get something", ala Avila.

[holygoat]

23 minutes ago, Jim Cowan said:

I find myself not caring which course of action he chooses.

Same, which is why I wouldn't offer him an extension. If he stays we have a solid lefty starter for four more years, and if he opts out we have money to play with. 

[SeattleMike]

25 minutes ago, holygoat said:

Same, which is why I wouldn't offer him an extension. If he stays we have a solid lefty starter for four more years, and if he opts out we have money to play with. 

Yeah, there is more good pitching than hitting in this year's free agent class so replacing ERod with someone comparable or better is very doable. 

[oblong]

If he opts out and his agent calls the Tigers Harris will be like “new phone who dis?’ 
 

He is being polite and diplomatic now because he’s on his team and may be for a few more years.  The second he’s not then he’s done with him. 

[buddha]

4 hours ago, oblong said:

I’m not sure he’s worth more than his current deal.  I’m fine if it opts out and leaves.  

yup.  dude signed a big contract with you and then disappears for half the season.  he couldnt work out his "family issues" before he got a huge contract?  of course not.  

then he backtracks at the last minute and screws you out of a trade.  

he's a flake and injury prone and unreliable.  no thanks.  good luck in your future somewhere else.

[1776]

“If I had a magic ball and I could tell you what's going to happen in the future, I'd probably tell you right away," he said. "Right now I am here. I signed with this organization for a long time and I'm happy with everything. My family feels happy in Detroit, and I'm happy with my teammates and the organization. I’d love to stay here.”

ERod speaks post trade deadline. Interesting. 

[Tigermojo]

3 hours ago, LongLiveMaroth said:

 

 

THis makes me think we were definitely getting a catcher from LAD either Rushing or Cartaya. Probably Rushing. 

 

I don't see the point of trading Rogers. He's the second best player on the team IMO. Still under control for years. Great defense. Teammates love him. I don't get it.

[casimir]

5 hours ago, oblong said:

I’m not sure he’s worth more than his current deal.  I’m fine if it opts out and leaves.  

That’s the only contract decision there is to make.  It’s his to opt in or opt out.  There shouldn’t be an extension.  The Tigers can look to trade him for a bat if he opts in.

[casimir]

8 minutes ago, Tigermojo said:

I don't see the point of trading Rogers. He's the second best player on the team IMO. Still under control for years. Great defense. Teammates love him. I don't get it.

It depends upon what the Tigers would have received.  If there’s a young MLB ready catcher coming back as part of the trade, that’d be fine.