gehringer_2 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 tying run at the plate. What else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtrain72 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 If it aint rough, it aint our allstar, #1 trade prospect Lange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 Lange = Broken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adullin Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 Not good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtrain72 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 Never a doubt 😅😬 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 Get's out of it. Lange is in the same place Soto was least season - down to one pitch he can throw for a strike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 That was a pretty nice bullpen game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted July 2, 2023 Author Share Posted July 2, 2023 7 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: Get's out of it. Lange is in the same place Soto was least season - down to one pitch he can throw for a strike The increasing BB/9 season after season is not encouraging. Sure, the SO/9 are fun. But Lange is not the lock down reliever that he is perceived to be. If he can get it together here before the trade deadline, it might be wise to sell if the return is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted July 2, 2023 Author Share Posted July 2, 2023 6 hours ago, Jim Cowan said: That was a pretty nice bullpen game. Hinch, Fetter, and Nieves deserve a bit of applause for how they’ve handled bullpen games this this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 1 hour ago, casimir said: The increasing BB/9 season after season is not encouraging. Sure, the SO/9 are fun. But Lange is not the lock down reliever that he is perceived to be. If he can get it together here before the trade deadline, it might be wise to sell if the return is there. Yeah, walks always were his Achilles heel, and it’s always going to be. When he starts walking guys they stop swinging, and his superpower is swings and misses on his curve ball after setting it up. If batters lay off and they get to wait for something hittable, he’s dead. I don’t know if he has to pound the zone or anything, but he needs to get a lot closer than he’s been. It’s a bad time for this to happen, but he’s got about a month to turn it around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 I think bullpen games, while a necessary evil, work in the teams best interest for that game. Relievers can go all out for an inning or two and the lineup only sees them once. Advantage to the pitchers. However, it’s clearly not a sustainable model based on roster size and most starting pitchers rarely going past 6-7 innings. When I see we have a bullpen game, I fully expect us to be in a great position to win the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: I think bullpen games, while a necessary evil, work in the teams best interest for that game. Relievers can go all out for an inning or two and the lineup only sees them once. Advantage to the pitchers. However, it’s clearly not a sustainable model based on roster size and most starting pitchers rarely going past 6-7 innings. When I see we have a bullpen game, I fully expect us to be in a great position to win the game. This true. I will add that even if roster sizes were unlimited, I think there is a limit to the number of humans that can pitch effectively in the majors for even one inning. Edited July 2, 2023 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gilmore Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 And if the bullpen gets overused, what then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 29 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said: And if the bullpen gets overused, what then? That’s why it’s not sustainable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 (edited) 48 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said: And if the bullpen gets overused, what then? it doesn't get 'overused' so much as you just have to keep reach lower and lower in the pitcher barrell for innings until you have to start using guys who can't get anyone out like Hill/Misiewicz. It's always just a mattter of where the next level of quality is in your system. If there had been good staters at Toledo in the pipeline, they would have been pitching in those games instead of having BP days. But we've already pulled all the starters out of the Toledo rotation who had any chance of surviving ML hitters (Faedo, Olson, Wentz). Wentz wasn't up to it, Faedo got hurt, Olson is hanging in there. Holton, Englert, Cisnero, Vest, Alexander, White - are all better pitchers than any starting help available in Toledo so they got the innings up to the limit they are available. If 3 starters were not on the way back shortly the next step would have been bring back Brieske and to stretch out T. Alexander again, even knowing he's been more effective as a reliever. Edited July 2, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gilmore Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 My question might have been worded differently, such as: Is Lange less effective now because of having to use him more (consecutive days/multiple innings) to preserve thin margin/lack of depth? I have been impressed with how the BP has managed the last year and a half, but arms do get worn down and injury is always lurking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Dan Gilmore said: My question might have been worded differently, such as: Is Lange less effective now because of having to use him more (consecutive days/multiple innings) to preserve thin margin/lack of depth? I have been impressed with how the BP has managed the last year and a half, but arms do get worn down and injury is always lurking. the thing is, I don't think Hinch is managing Lange and Foley much differently because of BP days. Those two are always going to be wanted late/close, so it's more a matter of how many games the Tigers end up late/close as opposed to how the 1st 7 innings were managed. And sure you can overwork a reliever. Hinch's base rule is no reliever works 3 days in a row. Beyond that I imagine they have a load management plan for each pitcher. I think in Lange's case, recently it isn't so much he's being asked to do too much, it's that he can't get though what would be his normal workload efficiently. There's a bit of chicken/egg thing to it. Edited July 2, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted July 2, 2023 Share Posted July 2, 2023 36 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: the thing is, I don't think Hinch is managing Lange and Foley much differently because of BP days. Those two are always going to be wanted late/close, so it's more a matter of how many games the Tigers end up late/close as opposed to how the 1st 7 innings were managed. And sure you can overwork a reliever. Hinch's base rule is no reliever works 3 days in a row. Beyond that I imagine they have a load management plan for each pitcher. I think in Lange's case, recently it isn't so much he's being asked to do too much, it's that he can't get though what would be his normal workload efficiently. There's a bit of chicken/egg thing to it. It would be nice if our offense could create enough run differential that we didn’t require a closer for so many of our victories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 23 hours ago, Tenacious D said: It would be nice if our offense could create enough run differential that we didn’t require a closer for so many of our victories. absofreakinglutely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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