07/06/2023 1:10 pm EDT Oakland Athletics vs Detroit Tigers

[casimir]

  

Oakland Athletics vs Detroit Tigers

Watch:  Tigers - Bally Sports Detroit, Athletics - NBCSCA
Listen:  Tigers - 97.1 The Ticket, Athletics - A's Cast, Bloomberg 960 AM/103.7 HD2

Edited July 6, 2023 by casimir

[Adullin]

I wish this team would either bottom out or make a run. This year's like watching a tv show with the two main characters will they are won't they. 

[mtutiger]

  On 7/6/2023 at 11:24 AM, Adullin said:

I wish this team would either bottom out or make a run. This year's like watching a tv show with the two main characters will they are won't they. 

Expand  

To be honest, I think that is what the 2023 Detroit Tigers are... 

[Tenacious D]

  On 7/6/2023 at 10:42 AM, casimir said:

  

Oakland Athletics vs Detroit Tigers

Watch:  Tigers - Bally Sports Detroit, Athletics - NBCSCA
Listen:  Tigers - 97.1 The Ticket, Athletics - A's Cast, Bloomberg 960 AM/103.7 HD2

Expand  

the good old days when these two teams were pretty, pretty, good.

[oblong]

If we were playing the A's or Yankees in the playoffs, it was a good thing.  Anybody else?  Not so much.

[Motor City Sonics]

The last two nights and the current state of this offense cement Al Avila's Millenesque legacy.      He was worse at his job than we even thought.     

[Motor City Sonics]

  On 7/6/2023 at 12:13 PM, mtutiger said:

To be honest, I think that is what the 2023 Detroit Tigers are... 

Expand  

I think this team is like heroin to a junkie.   A couple of wins, it feels good, we want more........oh yeah, it's heroin and it destroys every part of your life............but yes.......give us more............it's called Chasing It.   Forever chasing it.    Thanks Al Avila.    Even if Harris is nearly perfect in his decision making, it will take at least 3 years to climb out of the hole.   If everything goes right maybe we enjoy 2025.   But if he's only 2/3rd right (which is a very high standard) we're lookin at 2026/2027 - and the funny part of that is - that's about the time I young pitchers start getting really good and they'll probably leave in free agency.      Just draft well, Scott.   Please. 

[Tiger337]

If the Central Division remains week, it doesn't have take three or more years.  If (and I know it's a big if) the Tigers get their pitching healthy, they can contend sooner than that.  

[jz68]

I hope we lose 27-3.  So over this team and the silly talk of them competing for the division. 

[Tigeraholic1]

[kdog]

A team that has that 5-9  in the lineup does not care about winning today's game. That's fine I just wish they would be more upfront about it.

[mtutiger]

  On 7/6/2023 at 2:07 PM, Tiger337 said:

If the Central Division remains week, it doesn't have take three or more years.  If (and I know it's a big if) the Tigers get their pitching healthy, they can contend sooner than that.  

Expand  

Yep... they are not in the AL Beast, so as frustrating as they have been, it can turn around going forward 

[kdog]

  On 7/6/2023 at 2:07 PM, Tiger337 said:

If the Central Division remains week, it doesn't have take three or more years.  If (and I know it's a big if) the Tigers get their pitching healthy, they can contend sooner than that.  

Expand  

It will not come from a dramatic outside signing of an offensive player. It will come from better run prevention.

[Jim Cowan]

  On 7/6/2023 at 2:40 PM, kdog said:

A team that has that 5-9  in the lineup does not care about winning today's game. That's fine I just wish they would be more upfront about it.

Expand  

Vierling and Carpenter deserve to play, the other 7 guys don't.  But what are you gonna do?  I'd put McKinstry in, yes against a lefthander, and Rogers of course, yes day game after night game, but there is nothing else of any value that is available.

[kdog]

Baddoo will be activated for tomorrow night's game. Greene might be activated on Saturday or Sunday but nothing is set in stone.

[Edman85]

  On 7/6/2023 at 2:07 PM, Tiger337 said:

If the Central Division remains week, it doesn't have take three or more years.  If (and I know it's a big if) the Tigers get their pitching healthy, they can contend sooner than that.  

Expand  

How much have the pitching injuries hurt this year's squad? They are winning bullpen games. Faedo and Olson have acquitted themselves well. The two costs I can think are they had to let Wentz wear it longer than ideal, and maybe a bullpen implosion or two could have been prevented with more rest.

 

Having almost half the position players at or below replacement level is the issue. An issue I thought would be resolved by Harris churning harder. There is depth in Toledo and it is a bit surprising to me that they have chosen not to tap into it.

[kdog]

 

[mtutiger]

  On 7/6/2023 at 3:26 PM, Edman85 said:

There is depth in Toledo and it is a bit surprising to me that they have chosen not to tap into it.

Expand  

Not sure if you are referring to the prospects or the veterans down there, but in the case of the prospects, I just wonder if they view them a little more skeptically or are just more cautious than the rest of us appear to want to be. And what data they may have that lead them to that conclusion.

In general, Harris takes a lot of flak because he doesn't provide a ton of information to the media or give much to work with... it creates a vacuum that inevitably people in the media/fanbase will backfill. But OTOH, all of that is just noise and it stands to reason there are advantages to being less forward as well.

Edited July 6, 2023 by mtutiger

[Edman85]

  On 7/6/2023 at 3:41 PM, mtutiger said:

Not sure if you are referring to the prospects or the veterans down there, but in the case of the prospects, I just wonder if they view them a little more skeptically or are just more cautious than the rest of us appear to want to be. And what data they may have that lead them to that conclusion.

Expand  

Well, the big elephants in the room are Keith, Meadows, and Justyn Henry-Malloy. Keith, I've gone over to death, is somebody you want to keep that PPI tag attached to. Meadows just started heating up in the last month (as I replied to a Woodberry tweet about why he wasn't brought up when Baddoo and Greene were hurt: he hadn't earned it yet at that point). JHM is probably the one I would try to bring up, but his fielding clearly leaves a lot to be desired and it just just tough to have two DH-only RHB on your squad. Keep that sentence in the holster next time a Miggy fanboy says he's not hurting the team this year. Maybe they think Meadows and Malloy could get some prospect helium and enter the PPI tier by the end of the year, but I doubt it.

Others, in rapid fire: Papierski and Knapp have both hit pretty well in Toledo for catchers. I wouldn't expect them to get the call unless there was an injury. Rogers has clearly established himself as the go-to catcher, and while Haase has tapered off this year, he does provide some flexibility playing capable outfield that those vets haven't. Jonathan Davis's opt out was ill-timed, as he would have gotten a shot a week later after the rash of outfield injuries. Kreidler's injury kept him from getting another shot. Donny Sands and Andre Lipcius haven't done enough to earn a call, and neither has Solak who was a one time decent starter for the Rangers. We'll see if Camargo can get going, but he is a definite churn option.

 

[mtutiger]

  On 7/6/2023 at 3:52 PM, Edman85 said:

Well, the big elephants in the room are Keith, Meadows, and Justyn Henry-Malloy. Keith, I've gone over to death, is somebody you want to keep that PPI tag attached to. Meadows just started heating up in the last month (as I replied to a Woodberry tweet about why he wasn't brought up when Baddoo and Greene were hurt: he hadn't earned it yet at that point). JHM is probably the one I would try to bring up, but his fielding clearly leaves a lot to be desired and it just just tough to have two DH-only RHB on your squad. Keep that sentence in the holster next time a Miggy fanboy says he's not hurting the team this year. Maybe they think Meadows and Malloy could get some prospect helium and enter the PPI tier by the end of the year, but I doubt it.

Expand  

It's true.

I do think the defensive piece is a huge factor for both Keith and JHM.... it's easy to point at the statline and say "call em up".... but they need to have a position to play at which they are competent. JHM isn't there yet, and I don't know that Keith (setting aside PPI and other considerations) is either from what I understand.

Edited July 6, 2023 by mtutiger

[kdog]

  On 7/6/2023 at 3:56 PM, mtutiger said:

It's true.

I do think the defensive piece is a huge factor for both Keith and JHM.... it's easy to point at the statline and say "call em up".... but they need to have a position to play at which they are competent. JHM isn't there yet, and I don't know that Keith (setting aside PPI and other considerations) is either from what I understand.

Expand  

I'd agree if we had a bunch of guys with a .700 OPS. They are willfully putting together a lineup with guys who are below .600 and have a 3 month sample size.  This is still a major league product and they just haven't held anyone accountable for poor offensive performance. We know Schoop is not going to find something; We know that Marisnick will never hit and Haase is probably just lost. This is still purportedly a major league product. You have to at least demonstrate you care about improving it in season. The clearly don't and are willing to live with whatever damage it does to fan support.

Addendum: Greene and Baddoo are coming back. That will stem the tide a bit.

[mtutiger]

  On 7/6/2023 at 4:11 PM, kdog said:

I'd agree if we had a bunch of guys with a .700 OPS. They are willfully putting together a lineup with guys who are below .600 and have a 3 month sample size.  This is still a major league product and they just haven't held anyone accountable for poor offensive performance. We know Schoop is not going to find something; We know that Marisnick will never hit and Haase is probably just lost. This is still purportedly a major league product. You have to at least demonstrate you care about improving it in season. The clearly don't and are willing to live with whatever damage it does to fan support.

Expand  

Trust me, I get it from a production standpoint. But balancing the short term fortunes of the team and the long term fortunes of the team are two different things.... as you suggest, injuries have been a factor as well and they will get a couple of players back. Hopefully that will happen.

And I would add, regarding your last point, I don't know if it is smart for a front office to manage a team entirely off of pressure from it's fanbase. 

[kdog]

  On 7/6/2023 at 4:22 PM, mtutiger said:

Trust me, I get it from a production standpoint. But balancing the short term fortunes of the team and the long term fortunes of the team are two different things.... as you suggest, injuries have been a factor as well and they will get a couple of players back. Hopefully that will happen.

And I would add, regarding your last point, I don't know if it is smart for a front office to manage a team entirely off of pressure from it's fanbase. 

Expand  

Not pressure from the fanbase. Most people know the team is horrible and the organization needs another multiple year rebuild. You shouldn't waste professional developmental at-bats on old guys who won't help you in '24-'26. Playing the guys I mentioned above aren't going to help you next season. They're just wasting time.

 

[kdog]

JHM is likely a worse defender. They already have LH(Carpy) and RH(Cabrera) designated hitter on the roster.

Edited July 6, 2023 by kdog

[Toddwert]

  On 7/6/2023 at 3:56 PM, mtutiger said:

It's true.

I do think the defensive piece is a huge factor for both Keith and JHM.... it's easy to point at the statline and say "call em up".... but they need to have a position to play at which they are competent. JHM isn't there yet, and I don't know that Keith (setting aside PPI and other considerations) is either from what I understand.

Expand  

My question is how are they going to get at a position when Harris and Hinch are obsessed by position flexibility?  We got upset when AL kept moving Castellanos around and now it seems like they are doing that with every good player.