07/25/2023 6:40 pm EDT Los Angeles Angels vs Detroit Tigers

[RandyMarsh]

Hinch probably should've said that he went with Haase there cause he liked his chances more of "running into one" and ending the game right there vs. Miggy who is basically just a singles hitter at this point.

I wouldn't have agreed with that strategy but atleast there would be some reason behind it instead of the bs double switch thing. 

[Tiger337]

1 hour ago, chasfh said:

I like looking at FIP- vs ERA.

FIP is more predictive than ERA.  I always thought there should be a FIP-like stat that included hits because pitchers do have more control over hits than originally theorized.  xERA and xWOBA add quality of contact to the equation.  It seems they aren't more predictive that FIP, but they might be for some pitchers.  I'd like to see more analysis on that.  

[Tigermojo]

I saw it more as giving the old timer the night off. Miggy has only pinch hit three times all season. Asking him to jump up after sitting on the bench is risking an injury.

[Tiger337]

4 minutes ago, Tigermojo said:

I saw it more as giving the old timer the night off. Miggy has only pinch hit three times all season. Asking him to jump up after sitting on the bench is risking an injury.

Yeah, that would be my guess.  The decision to use him was probably made before the game.  

[oblong]

19 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

Ahh - you mean in terms of Hinch trying to send Harris a message? Yeah, that is certainly one angle on it. But jeesh, he can't  just pick up the phone and ask?

But to follow on that aspect, you can go the other way too. The story would run: Hinch has a soft spot for catchers - Haase has worked hard to improve his defense, Hinch appreciates that, is pulling too hard for him and maybe got too soft-hearted giving him chances to pull out of his slump.

Either take you think might apply - and maybe in some sense both - it wont go in my book as one of his best moves as a manager. 

I was there and said in the 10th you can now use Mr Singles to get the runner in.  

[chasfh]

14 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

FIP is more predictive than ERA.  I always thought there should be a FIP-like stat that included hits because pitchers do have more control over hits than originally theorized.  xERA and xWOBA add quality of contact to the equation.  It seems they aren't more predictive that FIP, but they might be for some pitchers.  I'd like to see more analysis on that.  

Then SIERA is a better stat for you, because it does contemplate balls in play. Not hits per se, but type of balls in play, i.e., fly balls, ground balls, pop ups. Not perfect though because it doesn't include line drives.

[ewsieg]

16 minutes ago, Tigermojo said:

I saw it more as giving the old timer the night off. Miggy has only pinch hit three times all season. Asking him to jump up after sitting on the bench is risking an injury.

And the downside is..........?

[chasfh]

15 minutes ago, Tigermojo said:

I saw it more as giving the old timer the night off. Miggy has only pinch hit three times all season. Asking him to jump up after sitting on the bench is risking an injury.

FWIW:

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2023/07/25/detroit-tigers-game-recap-los-angeles-angles-eduardo-rodriguez-shohei-ohtani/70466926007/

Haase, rather than Miguel Cabrera, pinch hit for Nick Maton.

"With Miggy, it's a two-for-one there," Hinch said. "If I'm going to lose the (designated hitter) by doing a two-for-one, I've got to pick and choose. I don't really want Miggy running the bases. I don't really want him on defense. He's not going to play defense, so it made for that order (of pinch hitters)."

With either Haase or Miggy, with Maton taken out of the game, they would have had to move Carpenter out of the DH spot and into the 2B spot, Haase would have to stay in the game on defense, and the remaining pinch-hitter would have to hit if the order came back round to the pitcher, then the pitcher would have to hit after that.

[ewsieg]

Legit points that I didn't take into account at that moment, but those points only matter if you don't extend the game.  

[Tiger337]

3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Then SIERA is a better stat for you, because it does contemplate balls in play. Not hits per se, but type of balls in play, i.e., fly balls, ground balls, pop ups. Not perfect though because it doesn't include line drives.

SIERA is more predictive than FIP and presumably XERA and XWOBA.  I remember there was criticism of it when it first came out, the main one being that the formula is so complicated that it is difficult to separate the different elements when you want to closely examine the results for a given pitcher.  Someone at Baseball Prospectus outright rejected it on that basis, but then later BP developed the DRA statistic which is way more complex.

[kdog]

They are running out the clock on Haase's time in major league baseball right now. They don't have a viable solution in Toledo and he won't be back next year. I guess the only hope is that he runs into a fastball and hits it far. But that's about it.

[chasfh]

55 minutes ago, kdog said:

They are running out the clock on Haase's time in major league baseball right now. They don't have a viable solution in Toledo and he won't be back next year. I guess the only hope is that he runs into a fastball and hits it far. But that's about it.

That’s fine. He’s served his purpose and I salute his service to the cause. 

[chasfh]

6 hours ago, ewsieg said:

Legit points that I didn't take into account at that moment, but those points only matter if you don't extend the game.  

The manager must always have a plan for the extended game.