2023 NCAA Football Thread

[MichiganCardinal]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

biggest scandal in cfp history!!!!!

I’m eagerly awaiting the expedited SEC investigation into this behavior.

[RandyMarsh]

Kyle McCord transferring to Syracuse. I hate them but boy going from the qb1 of OSU to Syracuse is quite the fall from grace.

[buddha]

dante moore going back to oregon.

commits to oregon, leaves for ucla, now goes back to oregon.

$$$$

good.  michigan shouldnt want any part of that mercenary.

[romad1]

Michigan with JJ next year should be awesome.  

[Deleterious]

 

[CMRivdogs]

On 12/21/2023 at 11:14 AM, Deleterious said:

 

 

[casimir]

9 hours ago, CMRivdogs said:

 

Just wait it out until the whole thing breaks apart in a few years.

[MichiganCardinal]

34 minutes ago, casimir said:

Just wait it out until the whole thing breaks apart in a few years.

You want to be on in the 'in' when that happens though. When it all finally breaks apart into the haves and have-nots, you don't want to be sitting on the outside hoping for an invite, you want to be on the inside helping pick who to exclude... You'd think Florida State would be 'in' whatever becomes next of NCAA football... But will North Carolina State, Wake Forest, and Syracuse? I'd much rather be sitting next to Alabama and Georgia or Michigan and Ohio State in discussions if I were FSU, because those will be the schools leading the charge into the future; not Clemson and Florida State.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, casimir said:

Just wait it out until the whole thing breaks apart in a few years.

College football today is like watching a train barreling toward a cliff, the bridge is out but everyone on board is too busy partying to bother looking down the tracks.

[buddha]

40 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

College football today is like watching a train barreling toward a cliff, the bridge is out but everyone on board is too busy partying to bother looking down the tracks.

oh no!  syracuse and wake forest wont be invited to the new league!  college football is dead!  lol.

i dont know what's coming next.  part of me is sad because the game i grew up watching is changing. the lament of an old man who doesnt like change. otoh, the game i grew up watching was based on a lie (amateurism) that exploited college kids for huge money.

the new way will be like the nfl, which will be good and bad.  im happy i root for a team that will definitely be invited to the new party.  

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, buddha said:

the new way will be like the nfl, which will be good and bad.  im happy i root for a team that will definitely be invited to the new party.  

No question you are more optimistic than I am. My question is where is the market position? Once the college players are pros, you basically have the NFL light, and every league that has gone up against the NFL for eyeballs has failed, because nobody does what the NFL does better than they do. The attraction of college sports has been in all the differences in the way it operated from the way pro sports operated. If you take away all those differences, which are disappearing by the day,  why am I watching  Ann Arbor vs Columbus (UM/OSU) instead of Det vs Cleveland - aka Lions/Browns? There can only be one set of top pros, and it's going to be the NFL. Sure there is a certain amount of alumni market to particular existing brands, but judging by the loose attachment of today's students to their varsity teams, that's a lot weaker once you get past the boomers into gens x/y/z and the boomers are dying. 

Edited December 24, 2023 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

47 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

No question you are more optimistic than I am. My question is where is the market position? Once the college players are pros, you basically have the NFL light, and every league that has gone up against the NFL for eyeballs has failed, because nobody does what the NFL does better than they do. The attraction of college sports has been in all the differences in the way it operated from the way pro sports operated. If you take away all those differences, which are disappearing by the day,  why am I watching  Ann Arbor vs Columbus (UM/OSU) instead of Det vs Cleveland - aka Lions/Browns? There can only be one set of top pros, and it's going to be the NFL. Sure there is a certain amount of alumni market to particular existing brands, but judging by the loose attachment of today's students to their varsity teams, that's a lot weaker once you get past the boomers into gens x/y/z and the boomers are dying. 

because its still michigan versus ohio state.  theyre not going to change the brand name.

college football is already a mercenary game and the ratings are still very high.  higher than anything other than the nfl.  michigan-osu drew 17 million viewers.  college football dominates the south, southwest, and midwest in the fall.  its not going away because conferences change.

if anything, the game will get better because you'll have better matchups on a weekly basis.  less indiana-purdue and more michigan-washington.

i hate to break it to you boomer, but your generation is not "keeping college football alive"  college football will survive even if people now realize it was a fraud for a hundred years before the players got paid OVER the table.  🙂

 

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

i hate to break it to you boomer, but your generation is not "keeping college football alive"  college football will survive even if people now realize it was a fraud for a hundred years before the players got paid OVER the table.  🙂

LOL - could be  the bettors will be enough keep everything oiled.

Still the relationship between alums and teams has changed and continues to change. How much that affects anything is certainly up for grabs. Part of it is the economics. When my cohort was in school, even non-student tickets were cheap and on graduating you could move into alumni ticket holder status pretty easily. Just in my personal acquaintance I know a number of people, I went to school with, some of whom have even moved out of state, that still buy their alumni tickets going back to the year they graduated. In my son's cohort, that does not seem to exist at all - 1) the added costs of seat licensing and the lower value of entry job offers... and that more grads leave the state immediately on graduation, never to return - though that's an issue that transcends sports! .2) and seats are less available because us old coots haven't given them up! .  So maybe the commercial interests and the bettors keep the money flowing, but you're whistling past the graveyard if you don't think alumni bonds are decaying. In that it's no different than the decay of every other institutional attachment people used to have in the US. To me the most striking thing in the decade+  I have been working with students, is how the Friday buzz about Saturday's game in our student lab has reached a point of non-existence. Maybe Michigan is just more of an outlier on this because our student body is less local than most schools,  whatever - but you can't miss the difference.  The game can go on without the students caring, but OTOH I do think that the further college ball goes down the road to being the NFL light, the more they risk making a left turn into something like the NBA gleague or MiLB. Time will tell -- but never underestimate the capacity of greedy people to screw up a good thing.

Edited December 24, 2023 by gehringer_2

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

if anything, the game will get better because you'll have better matchups on a weekly basis. 

Better games in abstract, quality of play sense, but here is the "on the other hand": In a super conference full of similarly resourced teams, records of playoff teams are  more likely to trend to 8-4 than 12-0. Even though we know it's the result of cupcake scheduling, the current system benefits from the hype around all the still undefeated/nearly undefeated teams near season end. The odds of getting a late season game between undefeated UM/OSU (and your 17M eyeballs?!), in a super conference are going to go down - to maybe zero.

Edited December 24, 2023 by gehringer_2

[MichiganCardinal]

6 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Better games in abstract, quality of play sense, but here is the "on the other hand": In a super conference full of similarly resourced teams, records of playoff teams are  more likely to trend to 8-4 than 12-0. Even though we know it's the result of cupcake scheduling, the current system benefits from the hype around all the still undefeated/nearly undefeated teams near season end. The odds of getting a late season game between undefeated UM/OSU (and your 17M eyeballs?!), in a super conference are going to go down - to maybe zero.

While they won’t generate super-matchup ratings like UM/OSU did, I think the networks (and fans for that matter) will take more games like UM/USC, UM/UT, and UM/Oregon, in addition to a 10-2 v 9-3 UM/OSU game… Despite losing some amount of those 17MM, they are still winning in the aggregate over watching Michigan play eight games in a row where their QB doesn’t take the field in the 4th quarter.

The question will likely become whether schools like Indiana, Purdue, Vanderbilt, and even Rutgers/Maryland, who have either been with the establishment for a century or were recently brought in for a distinct money-making purpose, but who don’t move the needle so much in that ratings race, get an invite to the table as well. UM/Indiana doesn’t get those ratings, but it’s also not like we can have 12 weeks of 10MM+ viewer matchups.

[casimir]

13 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

You want to be on in the 'in' when that happens though. When it all finally breaks apart into the haves and have-nots, you don't want to be sitting on the outside hoping for an invite, you want to be on the inside helping pick who to exclude... You'd think Florida State would be 'in' whatever becomes next of NCAA football... But will North Carolina State, Wake Forest, and Syracuse? I'd much rather be sitting next to Alabama and Georgia or Michigan and Ohio State in discussions if I were FSU, because those will be the schools leading the charge into the future; not Clemson and Florida State.

What will be interesting will be some of the teams in talent rich areas that aren’t necessarily considered football powerhouses.  Central Florida or SMU, as examples.  Do they jump above North Carolina State, Wake Forest, Syracuse?  What about Oregon State and Washington State?

And here’s another thing teams will have to come to grips with.  Once they tier off the bigs from the littles, nobody is going to want to see the bigs playing the littles.  And how will the SEC schools legitimize scheduling the FCS cupcake week when there is a level of competition in between themselves and the teams that they are scheduling?

[buddha]

2 hours ago, casimir said:

What will be interesting will be some of the teams in talent rich areas that aren’t necessarily considered football powerhouses.  Central Florida or SMU, as examples.  Do they jump above North Carolina State, Wake Forest, Syracuse?  What about Oregon State and Washington State?

And here’s another thing teams will have to come to grips with.  Once they tier off the bigs from the littles, nobody is going to want to see the bigs playing the littles.  And how will the SEC schools legitimize scheduling the FCS cupcake week when there is a level of competition in between themselves and the teams that they are scheduling?

are you in the big ten or sec?  no?  are you notre dame?  no?

you're out of luck.

the sec wont need to "legitimize" anything.  just like they dont now.  

the only thing that potentially scuttles it - but probably wont - is government intervention.  some of the "left behinds" have powerful politicians in their states who may put up some roadblocks for state run institutions to break away and leave them.  that's how baylor got into the big 12, iirc.

that being said, it didnt do them any good when oklahoma and texas moved to the sec and cal got left behind by the big ten.  so probably not.

[buddha]

the broadcast companies are already making these plans.  the schools will go along with whatever they want, just like the big ten did.  if you think kevin warren was the mastermind behind usc to the big ten, youre crazy.  if you think tony pettiti made the decision to get oregon and washington and not his tv overlords, youre smoking something.

[gehringer_2]

11 minutes ago, buddha said:

are you in the big ten or sec?  no?  are you notre dame?  no?

you're out of luck.

the sec wont need to "legitimize" anything.  just like they dont now.  

the only thing that potentially scuttles it - but probably wont - is government intervention. 

I think it's already too late for Congress to try to put the toothpaste back in the tube. They could have done something in that 1st 12 mo or so after the initial NIL ruling but with each conference realignment and NIL deal it get's harder to get back to anything like the status quo ante, and without descending into political commentary - it's factual enough to say that Washington is dysfunctional enough that fixing college sports isn't very likely to make it to the agenda anytime soon.

[Deleterious]

 

[MichiganCardinal]

5 hours ago, Deleterious said:

 

That ain’t good. If he’s a senior, he’ll be lucky not to get charged. If he’s not, he’ll be lucky to play another snap of collegiate football.

[Deleterious]

The great Dallas desert.  

 

[Deleterious]

Kellogg gets it.  Nobody cares about this bowl game.  So they make a fun and over the top trophy to spice things up.   Now their product has been plastered all over social media the past two days.  You can't put a price on that type of advertising.  

 

[casimir]

On 12/24/2023 at 11:07 PM, Deleterious said:

The great Dallas desert.  

 

The geography department must be proud.

[casimir]

10 hours ago, Deleterious said:

Kellogg gets it.  Nobody cares about this bowl game.  So they make a fun and over the top trophy to spice things up.   Now their product has been plastered all over social media the past two days.  You can't put a price on that type of advertising.  

 

"A" for effort.  But brown sugar & cinnamon pop tarts are the correcter call.