1984Echoes Posted October 1, 2023 Author Share Posted October 1, 2023 13 hours ago, Adullin said: Thats the rub. I really want the pitcher/hitter from the Angels Ohtani But he is on record with his intentions to stay in California. Catcher Yasmani Grandal is a switch hitter. I like Chapman as well if we got those three I would be happy. To be greedy get Bellinger. Ohtani = pipe dream, he ain't leaving the Angels. Grandal = 35 and on his last legs and won't give you what you think you're going to get with him. Chapman = will be 31 next year and is DECLINING. Terrible suggestion. Too much money and too many years for a declining player? No thanks. Bellinger is the one suggestion here that would be interesting. He can play 1B, and is only 28. A LH'er with pop and plate discipline and positional flexibility (OF and 1B) that can take some time away from Tork if he can't make further improvements or stay in the OF if Tork DOES make significant improvements... I would approve this signing if this is the direction Harris wants to go. I also like Lee's suggestion of signing Jung Hoo Lee, I believe he is being posted this year as well as Yamamoto... Except I don't think he has much power and he doesn't play 1B. If I had a choice of one I think I choose Bellinger over Jung, but adding either (or BOTH) allows Harris to make additional moves as Carpenter/ Baddoo most likely become expendable at that point... Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 2 hours ago, chasfh said: Don’t forget Gaspar, Drumright and Greisinger … Wheatland, Baugh and Cornejo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 1, 2023 Author Share Posted October 1, 2023 Why not Verlander, Scherzer and Porcello? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Why not Verlander, Scherzer and Porcello? Wentz, Faedo and Brieske Edited October 1, 2023 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 53 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: dumb response. We know exactly who's going to be a FA this year. Oh look, you just named 3 bats! we know whos getting traded ? not every player is acquired in free agency Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 1, 2023 Author Share Posted October 1, 2023 35 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Wentz, Faedo and Brieske Invalid comparison. None of those guys were ever considered as anything more than 5th starters/ back-enders/ possible relievers. Faedo for several years has been looked at as targeted for the BP. And Brieske is already in the BP so moot point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 1, 2023 Author Share Posted October 1, 2023 38 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Wentz, Faedo and Brieske PS: Mize, Manning and Skubal. Just to reiterate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 1 minute ago, 1984Echoes said: PS: Mize, Manning and Skubal. Just to reiterate. I was actually going to say Mize, Manning and Turnbull but I though it was too subtle. Anyway, I would be willing to bet that none of Mize, Manning and Skubal becomes Verlander or Scherzer. They are far more likely to become Fullmer, Boyd and Norris. However, I am hoping they fall somewhere in between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 8 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I was actually going to say Mize, Manning and Turnbull but I though it was too subtle. Anyway, I would be willing to bet that none of Mize, Manning and Skubal becomes Verlander or Scherzer. They are far more likely to become Fullmer, Boyd and Norris. However, I am hoping they fall somewhere in between. any bet that a young guy doesn't get to the HOF is going to be a good one! But sure, 3 guys who even crack above average starter status is probably enough to get you some division championships and they at least all have a shot at that. Manning just (!) has to stay on the field. I'm really curious to see what Mize has on his return. If the repaired back leads to a better fastball, maybe he will start to justify his 1/1 selection. I was not that impressed with his stuff before the injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 23 hours ago, Toddwert said: makes me wonder if Harris knows he's conservative so he brought in Greenberg as someone who's a little more agressive My guess is that he approached this year as an assessment year and probably wanted to get a feel for this org before making really big moves. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 31 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: any bet that a young guy doesn't get to the HOF is going to be a good one! But sure, 3 guys who even crack above average starter status is probably enough to get you some division championships and they at least all have a shot at that. Manning just (!) has to stay on the field. I'm really curious to see what Mize has on his return. If the repaired back leads to a better fastball, maybe he will start to justify his 1/1 selection. I was not that impressed with his stuff before the injury. Even Manning has not impressed me much. Even when he is healthy, his performance is off and on. Skubal is very impressive. He just needs to stay healthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 16 minutes ago, mtutiger said: My guess is that he approached this year as an assessment year and probably wanted to get a feel for this org before making really big moves. I don't really understand the argument that he has to see what he has for a year before making moves. He has all the stats, videos and scouting reports he wants on demand. He knew what he had in terms of players. I can see the argument that he was focused on making off-field organizational changes and wanted get that all in place before making big moves. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 Yeah, if somebody needs a year to know what they have in today's information age, that's a problem. I could see the "well, let's see how players improve with different processes in place" line though. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 1, 2023 Author Share Posted October 1, 2023 57 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I was actually going to say Mize, Manning and Turnbull but I though it was too subtle. Anyway, I would be willing to bet that none of Mize, Manning and Skubal becomes Verlander or Scherzer. They are far more likely to become Fullmer, Boyd and Norris. However, I am hoping they fall somewhere in between. They're already better than Fulmer-Boyd-Norris. I know we don't have a current rotation of HOF'ers... but they're already "in-between" as you are hoping for. I brought up JV and Scherzer because everyone believes they are being SOOOO F'ing clever bringing up failures of the past. Case in point: 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: Wheatland, Baugh and Cornejo. This is who you ORIGINALLY listed... WTF do those 3 guys have to do with Skubal-Mize-Manning-Brieske-Faedo-Olson-Gipson-Long, etc...? Who are ALL pitching in MLB already, with varying degrees of success. From top-of-the-rotation starter to effective bullpen guys. WTF is going on with these OH SO CLEVER listings of previous failures? Not to bash on you because you didn't start this... but it's actually F'ing annoying. And it adds NOTHING to the discussion of how to set this team up for success in 2024 and beyond. /Soapbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 11 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: They're already better than Fulmer-Boyd-Norris. I know we don't have a current rotation of HOF'ers... but they're already "in-between" as you are hoping for. Not true. Fulmer by himself did as much in first two seasons (9.4 WAR) as Skubal. Manning and Mize combined so far (also 9.4 WAR). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 1, 2023 Author Share Posted October 1, 2023 6 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Not true. Fulmer by himself did as much in first two seasons (9.4 WAR) as Skubal. Manning and Mize combined so far (also 9.4 WAR). No context whatsoever. An easy historical counting stat for you to refer to since Fulmer started out hot. How many WAR does Fulmer have in the 6 years since Fulmer put up that 9.4? 3? I'll tell you what, I will bet as much money as you want that Manning Mize & Skubal put up more WAR starting in 2024 through the end of their careers than your 3 have their ENTIRE careers. You have a 27 WAR head start and still counting... Wanna bet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: No context whatsoever. An easy historical counting stat for you to refer to since Fulmer started out hot. How many WAR does Fulmer have in the 6 years since Fulmer put up that 9.4? 3? I'll tell you what, I will bet as much money as you want that Manning Mize & Skubal put up more WAR starting in 2024 through the end of their careers than your 3 have their ENTIRE careers. You have a 27 WAR head start and still counting... Wanna bet? This doesn't make sense. You said that Manning, Mize and Skubal were ALREADY better than Fulmer, Boyd and Norris. I showed that they aren't. They might do better going forward, but they are not ALREADY better. Edited October 1, 2023 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 I understand wanting to bring in Hader as bullpen help. No doubt about the talent, and any team should welcome that kind of talent. However, listening to one of the national podcasts the last week or two, his name came up as maybe becoming a bit more hard to handle in the clubhouse and only wants to pitch the 9th. IF true, and I don’t know one way or the other, I wouldn’t be interested at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Tiger337 said: I was actually going to say Mize, Manning and Turnbull but I though it was too subtle. Anyway, I would be willing to bet that none of Mize, Manning and Skubal becomes Verlander or Scherzer. They are far more likely to become Fullmer, Boyd and Norris. However, I am hoping they fall somewhere in between. I agree on Mize and Manning. I can envision Skubal becoming deGrom lite, complete with injury proclivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 2 hours ago, mtutiger said: My guess is that he approached this year as an assessment year and probably wanted to get a feel for this org before making really big moves. I think this is true. But I believe one or the other had mentioned that they didn’t always agree with each other in the past. It’s not necessary a bad thing to have differences of opinion. It’ll be how they work through those that will matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 2 hours ago, mtutiger said: My guess is that he approached this year as an assessment year and probably wanted to get a feel for this org before making really big moves. 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: I don't really understand the argument that he has to see what he has for a year before making moves. He has all the stats, videos and scouting reports he wants on demand. He knew what he had in terms of players. I can see the argument that he was focused on making off-field organizational changes and wanted get that all in place before making big moves. 1 hour ago, Edman85 said: Yeah, if somebody needs a year to know what they have in today's information age, that's a problem. I could see the "well, let's see how players improve with different processes in place" line though. My worthless guess is it’s probably a bit of all of the above. As far as the video/stats/reports on players are concerned, sure, there was information available to Harris on his first day. But how much of that was relevant or how was it prioritized on day one vs how Harris wanted it to be? Just because there was preexisting information doesn’t mean it was useful or utilized correctly. I am intrigued to see what Harris and company have in store this off-season. I don’t quite know what to expect. I have my own ideas what I’d like to see, but I don’t want to project that onto what I think Harris do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 1, 2023 Author Share Posted October 1, 2023 1 hour ago, casimir said: I understand wanting to bring in Hader as bullpen help. No doubt about the talent, and any team should welcome that kind of talent. However, listening to one of the national podcasts the last week or two, his name came up as maybe becoming a bit more hard to handle in the clubhouse and only wants to pitch the 9th. IF true, and I don’t know one way or the other, I wouldn’t be interested at all. That wouldn't stop me. I would take that calculated risk, along with the shut-down talent and the 9th inning (only) lock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 1, 2023 Author Share Posted October 1, 2023 2 hours ago, Tiger337 said: This doesn't make sense. You said that Manning, Mize and Skubal were ALREADY better than Fulmer, Boyd and Norris. I showed that they aren't. They might do better going forward, but they are not ALREADY better. WAR is not the ONLY measure of comparable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 1, 2023 Author Share Posted October 1, 2023 58 minutes ago, casimir said: ... My worthless guess is it’s probably a bit of all of the above. As far as the video/stats/reports on players are concerned, sure, there was information available to Harris on his first day. But how much of that was relevant or how was it prioritized on day one vs how Harris wanted it to be? Just because there was preexisting information doesn’t mean it was useful or utilized correctly. I am intrigued to see what Harris and company have in store this off-season. I don’t quite know what to expect. I have my own ideas what I’d like to see, but I don’t want to project that onto what I think Harris do. And aside from stats.. there are also personalities involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted October 1, 2023 Share Posted October 1, 2023 3 hours ago, Edman85 said: Yeah, if somebody needs a year to know what they have in today's information age, that's a problem. I could see the "well, let's see how players improve with different processes in place" line though. This is probably the more artful way to articulate what I was saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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