Motor City Sonics Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 39 minutes ago, casimir said: Hey Donald, get that caps button checked. No, I'm yelling at Chris. They only need a couple of pieces. Go get them. 85 wins next year takes this division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 56 minutes ago, casimir said: Folks will look at the box score and not get the full picture of how they gave up the 7 runs. I think that 9th inning had some fluke to it (the Madrigal double) and/or Brieske might be made a scapegoat. But Torkelson gave away outs which lead to runs. Really disappointing. I suppose it’s possible Tork could become marginally better as a first baseman. He’ll have to keep raking in order to make it a relative non-issue. Here’s a really out there thought: I don’t suppose Tork could become a trade candidate over the winter? Maybe someone like the Yankees, who have a primary 1B about to enter the AM radio demographic next year, might be willing to empty out the top of their system to get someone who appears on the brink. Not saying that’s what I would want, there’s a single-digit chance at best it would even happen, and it’s a completely wild idea, but I would trust Scott Harris to make a deal like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roarintiger1 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 A legitimate lead off hitter should be a priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, chasfh said: I suppose it’s possible Tork could become marginally better as a first baseman. He’ll have to keep raking in order to make it a relative non-issue. Here’s a really out there thought: I don’t suppose Tork could become a trade candidate over the winter? Maybe someone like the Yankees, who have a primary 1B about to enter the AM radio demographic next year, might be willing to empty out the top of their system to get someone who appears on the brink. Not saying that’s what I would want, there’s a single-digit chance at best it would even happen, and it’s a completely wild idea, but I would trust Scott Harris to make a deal like that. No, they need to be done with that ****. They can win next year. 2 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 7 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: No, they need to be done with that ****. They can win next year. I think that’s going to depend on whether they can get some impact players and pitchers in the offseason, unless you believe what we have now plus a year will be enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, chasfh said: I suppose it’s possible Tork could become marginally better as a first baseman. He’ll have to keep raking in order to make it a relative non-issue. Here’s a really out there thought: I don’t suppose Tork could become a trade candidate over the winter? Maybe someone like the Yankees, who have a primary 1B about to enter the AM radio demographic next year, might be willing to empty out the top of their system to get someone who appears on the brink. Not saying that’s what I would want, there’s a single-digit chance at best it would even happen, and it’s a completely wild idea, but I would trust Scott Harris to make a deal like that. The roller under the glove was a bad play - just lack of concentration making sure his glove was all the way down. The dropped throw was at least a much Baez. Lesson one for MIFs should be "don't throw the ball at the 1B's feet. I'm beginning to understand why Tony Rizzo won 4 gold gloves and why Baez would have been moved to 2b a long time ago if he hadn't had the good fortune to play with such a superlative 1b. Also why Hinch never gives Torkelson a day off. Playing a part time 1B opposite javy would be cruel and unusual punishment. Look up "loose cannon" in the dictionary and you're going to see Javy's right arm. I'm not sure I've ever seen a SS who can NEVER just make a decent chest high throw. He's like Brandon Inge x 10. At least Inge usually only made a tough throw after making a tough catch like a hard dive. Javy actually throws better after the tough plays, it's his routine catches theat generate so many of his tough dig outs at 1B. Edited August 22, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, chasfh said: I think that’s going to depend on whether they can get some impact players and pitchers in the offseason, unless you believe what we have now plus a year will be enough. They are already close enough in the AL Central where they should be making moves that can help them win next year. They can't keep rebuilding forever. Edited August 22, 2023 by Tiger337 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 20 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: No, they need to be done with that ****. They can win next year. Can I give all my likes to one post? 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted August 22, 2023 Author Share Posted August 22, 2023 18 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: They are already close enough in the AL Central where they should be making moves that can help them win next year. They can't keep rebuilding forever. I appears that they have enough returning internal pieces to add to next season. They also should have a pretty good payroll situation to take on salary for a few seasons. Cabrera retires, Rodriguez opts out, Baez opts in. They have one salary at $25M and nobody else approaching double digit $Ms. I think where it could get tricky is if the need prospect capital to make trades. But I think they can look to teams trying to shed salary as a priority to get value back in return without giving up too much. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 40 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: No, they need to be done with that ****. They can win next year. Yeah, nothing would piss me off more as a fan than waiting on Tork for some 800 plate appearances to turn the corner with the bat, only to then trade him for some prospects that theoretically may not even pan out. Work with him on the defense, or even give him some reps at DH... but right there with you on trading him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted August 22, 2023 Author Share Posted August 22, 2023 26 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: The roller under the glove was a bad play - just lack of concentration making sure his glove was all the way down. The dropped throw was at least a much Baez. Lesson one for MIFs should be "don't throw the ball at the 1B's feet. I'm beginning to understand why Tony Rizzo won 4 gold gloves and why Baez would have been moved to 2b a long time ago if he hadn't had the good fortune to play with such a superlative 1b. Also why Hinch never gives Torkelson a day off. Playing a part time 1B opposite javy would be cruel and unusual punishment. Look up "loose cannon" in the dictionary and you're going to see Javy's right arm. I'm not sure I've ever seen a SS who can NEVER just make a decent chest high throw. He's like Brandon Inge x 10. At least Inge usually only made a tough throw after making a tough catch like a hard dive. Javy actually throws better after the tough plays, it's his routine catches theat generate so many of his tough dig outs at 1B. Torkelson has for the most part done pretty well catching Baez. The groundball was inexcusable. Field it, throw to 2B, easy play. Even if they don't get the double play, a converted out at 2B gives them 2 outs with a runner (Candelario) at 1B. Maybe they give up only 1 (or 0) rather than 3 that inning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, casimir said: I appears that they have enough returning internal pieces to add to next season. They also should have a pretty good payroll situation to take on salary for a few seasons. Cabrera retires, Rodriguez opts out, Baez opts in. They have one salary at $25M and nobody else approaching double digit $Ms. I think where it could get tricky is if the need prospect capital to make trades. But I think they can look to teams trying to shed salary as a priority to get value back in return without giving up too much. OTOH, they could fall back if they don't come up with equal or greater pitching replacements for ERod and Lorenzen and doing that is not a sure thing. Right now too much the in house pitching depth is trending toward back of the rotation - Faedo, Olsen, Wentz, Manning and I'm also getting the feeling Turnbull is damaged goods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 52 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: The roller under the glove was a bad play - just lack of concentration making sure his glove was all the way down. The dropped throw was at least a much Baez. Lesson one for MIFs should be "don't throw the ball at the 1B's feet. I'm beginning to understand why Tony Rizzo won 4 gold gloves and why Baez would have been moved to 2b a long time ago if he hadn't had the good fortune to play with such a superlative 1b. Also why Hinch never gives Torkelson a day off. Playing a part time 1B opposite javy would be cruel and unusual punishment. Look up "loose cannon" in the dictionary and you're going to see Javy's right arm. I'm not sure I've ever seen a SS who can NEVER just make a decent chest high throw. He's like Brandon Inge x 10. At least Inge usually only made a tough throw after making a tough catch like a hard dive. Javy actually throws better after the tough plays, it's his routine catches theat generate so many of his tough dig outs at 1B. Regardless of who plays shortstop, Tork is a substandard first baseman who will cost us runs there if he doesn’t improve, so he’ll have to keep raking in order to make it a non-issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 52 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: They are already close enough in the AL Central where they should be making moves that can help them win next year. They can't keep rebuilding forever. They won’t rebuild forever, but they are also not done rebuilding now. They might win a weak Central, but I would really be surprised if we started trading from the top of our system this winter to go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 26 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Yeah, nothing would piss me off more as a fan than waiting on Tork for some 800 plate appearances to turn the corner with the bat, only to then trade him for some prospects that theoretically may not even pan out. Work with him on the defense, or even give him some reps at DH... but right there with you on trading him. I don’t want to trade Tork, but I wouldn’t bail on Harris if he did, which I’m pretty sure he won’t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, chasfh said: They won’t rebuild forever, but they are also not done rebuilding now. They might win a weak Central, but I would really be surprised if we started trading from the top of our system this winter to go for it. There's a pretty wide gulf between trading top prospects for major league talent and trading young controllable former 1-1 picks for prospects, and I suspect the Tigers fall squarely in between that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, chasfh said: They won’t rebuild forever, but they are also not done rebuilding now. They might win a weak Central, but I would really be surprised if we started trading from the top of our system this winter to go for it. I don't want them to trade from the top of the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, chasfh said: Regardless of who plays shortstop, Tork is a substandard first baseman who will cost us runs there if he doesn’t improve, so he’ll have to keep raking in order to make it a non-issue. You have those two issues with a 1b though. One is plays on batted balls, one is fielding throws. In his current state Tork is much better at the latter than the former but you *have* to have the latter if Baez remains your shortstop. Put an Alan Trammell over there and it's absolutely a different overall defensive calculation. Javy is terribly undisciplined in his throws and he gets a pass because he is otherworldly with the glove, but it all relates; you can't get the value of Javy's glove without a 1B who is above average at managing his throws. Edited August 22, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, chasfh said: I don’t want to trade Tork, but I wouldn’t bail on Harris if he did, which I’m pretty sure he won’t. I've put a lot of faith in Harris up till this point, but without seeing the return, I'd be questioning that faith if he did something like that. Really, with both Greene and Tork, I think the conversations being had are probably more about extensions (Greene particularly - Tork has had a nice surge but we'd like to see a little more consistency) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I don't want them to trade from the top of the system. I go back to what I always maintain, you can't really rely on increasing you roster value in trades. Trades are only really useful when you have guys that are blocked whose value you can't utilize, otherwise you will on average give up as much as you get. The idea that you trade yourself into being better is an arm-chair GM fantasy for a team like the Tigers that is resource poor to begin with. You can only do what Dombrowski did, which was keep adding $$ in your trades - buying roster value in each trade. That can certainly work...for a while. Edited August 22, 2023 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 I expect Harris to be a competent GM. I haven't seen anything which makes me think he's an elite GM worthy of undying faith. I don't see any warning signs either. It's still too early for me to have a strong opinion of him one way or the other. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I expect Harris to be a competent GM. I haven't seen anything which makes me think he's an elite GM worthy of undying faith. I don't see any warning signs either. It's still too early for me to have a strong opinion of him one way or the other. . yeah - we are still waiting this FO to come up with their Hershell Walker trade. 🔥 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 19 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I expect Harris to be a competent GM. I haven't seen anything which makes me think he's an elite GM worthy of undying faith. I don't see any warning signs either. It's still too early for me to have a strong opinion of him one way or the other. . and I'm not sure what would have or could have occured a year into his tenure to make us think he's an elite GM. Getting lucky isn't a sign of genius. The league is full of competent and smart people. The goal is to be on par with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: There's a pretty wide gulf between trading top prospects for major league talent and trading young controllable former 1-1 picks for prospects, and I suspect the Tigers fall squarely in between that. It would have to be pipeline-numbered prospects close to the majors plus either a starting major leaguer at a position of need or a top half of the rotation pitcher. That would be tough to swing and super unlikely but if Harris were to do so I wouldn’t bail on him. That’s why I said it was out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted August 22, 2023 Share Posted August 22, 2023 1 minute ago, chasfh said: It would have to be pipeline-numbered prospects close to the majors plus either a starting major leaguer at a position of need or a top half of the rotation pitcher. That would be tough to swing and super unlikely but if Harris were to do so I wouldn’t bail on him. That’s why I said it was out there. It would have to be one of those positional matchup type deals where different needs are met. You'd want a Tork type player, in terms of MLB readiness and all that but at a different position. Of course the value of a 1B/DH compared to another IF skews things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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