Wings @ Blackhawks

[buddha]

this is the problem with message boards.  people take what you say a certain way and infer things from what you wrote that you never meant to imply.

and then you get no benefit of the doubt when you say that's not what you meant.  

nobody here is blaming a victim or advocating for sexual assault.  having a different idea for what the repercussions for a management decision (if there is any disagreement) might be, or what the appropriate thing for an athlete to say in an interview is not defending sexual assault.

 

[Kacie]

1 hour ago, buddha said:

im pretty sure toews was saying bowman/mcissac didnt do it (as in, didnt do the assault), not that they werent involved in the decision not to immediately do something.  but i could be wrong about that.  again, that's why you just need to issue a statement and be done with it.  throw em under the bus and move on.

toews isnt a master at nuance, lol.

“To me, Stan and Al, make any argument you want, they’re not directly complicit in the activities that happened,” Toews said.

“I just know them as people, and I’ve had a relationship and friendship with them for a long time as part of the Blackhawks family. People like Al and Stan have made coming to the Blackhawks . . . one of the special places to play hockey.

“Regardless of mistakes that may have been made, for someone like Stan, who has done so much for the Blackhawks — and Al, as well — to lose everything they care about and their livelihoods, as well . . . I don’t understand how that makes it go away, to just delete them from existence and [say], ‘That’s it, we’ll never hear from them again.’ ”

(To clarify, the investigation determined Bowman and MacIsaac were involved and complicit in the May 23, 2010, meeting in which Hawks brass determined not to take any actions regarding Aldrich until three weeks later, after the Stanley Cup Final.)

[buddha]

5 minutes ago, Kacie said:

“To me, Stan and Al, make any argument you want, they’re not directly complicit in the activities that happened,” Toews said.

“I just know them as people, and I’ve had a relationship and friendship with them for a long time as part of the Blackhawks family. People like Al and Stan have made coming to the Blackhawks . . . one of the special places to play hockey.

“Regardless of mistakes that may have been made, for someone like Stan, who has done so much for the Blackhawks — and Al, as well — to lose everything they care about and their livelihoods, as well . . . I don’t understand how that makes it go away, to just delete them from existence and [say], ‘That’s it, we’ll never hear from them again.’ ”

(To clarify, the investigation determined Bowman and MacIsaac were involved and complicit in the May 23, 2010, meeting in which Hawks brass determined not to take any actions regarding Aldrich until three weeks later, after the Stanley Cup Final.)

yeah, could be.  hard to tell what he means.  because a law firm uses the term "complicit" in an investigation document doesnt necessarily mean that's what toews understands it to mean.  but you could be right.

either way, bowman's his friend and he stuck up for him.  dumb thing to do for all the reasons previously stated.

[gehringer_2]

9 minutes ago, buddha said:

this is the problem with message boards.  people take what you say a certain way and infer things from what you wrote that you never meant to imply.

and then you get no benefit of the doubt when you say that's not what you meant.  

nobody here is blaming a victim or advocating for sexual assault.  having a different idea for what the repercussions for a management decision (if there is any disagreement) might be, or what the appropriate thing for an athlete to say in an interview is not defending sexual assault.

 

if it's just misunderstanding that's not that big a deal. I think I see what SFC reacted to and how he read and I can recognize that I can correct that impression. The harder thing is when you really do have a deeper disagreement. Writing explanations is more work than people usually want to do - the temptation is often to just 'write if off' and stay irritated....

[Kacie]

11 minutes ago, buddha said:

this is the problem with message boards.  people take what you say a certain way and infer things from what you wrote that you never meant to imply.

and then you get no benefit of the doubt when you say that's not what you meant.  

nobody here is blaming a victim or advocating for sexual assault.  having a different idea for what the repercussions for a management decision (if there is any disagreement) might be, or what the appropriate thing for an athlete to say in an interview is not defending sexual assault.

 

You might feel differently about that if you were the parents of the 22 year old Blackhawks intern who was assaulted not long after Beach reported the incident or the two men at Miami of Ohio who were sexually assaulted or the teenager in Houghton who was attacked.  All of them were assaulted because of the lack of action on behalf of the Blackhawks organization, likely players included.  You're one of those family members watching Toews defend the people who allowed their attacker to continue assaulting people and you think it's just about a press conference or a "management decision"?

Asking if someone was gay or what they were wearing comes off as victim blaming because it implies that sexual assault is about sex.  It is not.  I don't see why it is unreasonable to think a young player, a Black Ace, trying to make the team would not be intimidated by a member of the coaching staff saying he would ruin his career.  Obviously, Beach WASN'T intimidated by the homophobic implications because he TOLD EVERYONE!

What I would like to know more about is what happened to Beach after the season he was assaulted and going forward.  Did he ever get another chance with the Blackhawks or another NHL team?  It would seem odd a first round draft pick wouldn't get another shot and would be given up on so quickly.  Was he being punished for his reporting of the incident?

[sagnam]

It sounds like Alridge was given the resign or be investigated option.  He should not have been given an option to avoid an investigation.   This is unreal.  Like did a crime not happen if the perpetrator is no longer there.  Hey victim, calm down, the perpetrator is gone.  We are all good.  This is CRAZY!

[gehringer_2]

15 minutes ago, Kacie said:

Asking if someone was gay or what they were wearing comes off as victim blaming because it implies that sexual assault is about sex.  It is not.  I don't see why it is unreasonable to think a young player, a Black Ace, trying to make the team would not be intimidated by a member of the coaching staff saying he would ruin his career.  Obviously, Beach WASN'T intimidated by the homophobic implications because he TOLD EVERYONE!

But he didn't bring a public charge against Aldrich at the time. According to today's NPR story, Beech said it was the criminal charge in MI against Aldrich that persuaded him he could bring a case that where "It was no longer my word against everybody else's," so he apparently continued to believe the Black Hawks would circle the wagons if he had brought a more public accusation at the time.

 

Quote

What I would like to know more about is what happened to Beach after the season he was assaulted and going forward.  Did he ever get another chance with the Blackhawks or another NHL team?  It would seem odd a first round draft pick wouldn't get another shot and would be given up on so quickly.  Was he being punished for his reporting of the incident?

according to the same story he is a pro in Germany. I suppose if he were that good he would have come to some other team's attention. He isn't making the charge that the NHL has blackballed him...so far.

Edited October 29, 2021 by gehringer_2

[Hongbit]

4 hours ago, buddha said:

he didnt say enough politically correct tag lines of sorrow and remorse, so he gets dragged.  again, he should have done what debrincat did and basically throw bowman and everyone else under the bus to save himself.  that's what you do.  and he should have had someone there to tell him to do it.  that was my point.

toews is a public figure, and to keep his reputation in tact, he needs to keep his public image.  and that means throwing all the blame on bowman et al even if bowman is his friend.  bowman would probably understand.

that's how the game is played.

The first sentence wasn’t needed.   I get frustrated too at the depths that the woken will try to take cancel culture but in this case JT messed up and deserved to get dragged.   You have perfectly outlined what he needed to say and he did almost the exact opposite.  

[buddha]

2 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

The first sentence wasn’t needed.   I get frustrated too at the depths that the woken will try to take cancel culture but in this case JT messed up and deserved to get dragged.   You have perfectly outlined what he needed to say and he did almost the exact opposite.  

yeah, you're probably right.

[Kacie]

[Hongbit]

35 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

But he didn't bring a public charge against Aldrich at the time. According to today's NPR story, Beech said it was the criminal charge in MI against Aldrich that persuaded him he could bring a case that where "It was no longer my word against everybody else's," so he apparently continued to believe the Black Hawks would circle the wagons if he had brought a more public accusation at the time.

 

according to the same story he is a pro in Germany. I suppose if he were that good he would have come to some other team's attention. He isn't making the charge that the NHL has blackballed him...so far.

Beach talks in the interview about how he became a different person after this happened.   He was more difficult to be around, abused alcohol and drugs, and was a much worse individual than before the assault and the teams decision to do nothing about it.    I think that damaged his chances at an NHL career more than being blackballed.  
 

Additionally, I am truly sickened that once again as was the case with Sandusky,  Nassar, and Anderson, an organizations decision to quietly push away an abuser to avoid making a big story allowed that predator to continue adding new victims for years and years after it should’ve been stopped.  

Edited October 29, 2021 by Hongbit