buddha Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 jonathan toews is now hitler. see? that's why you need a good pr team. lol. Henry II had it right, all those years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagnam Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 Just now, buddha said: jonathan toews is now hitler. see? that's why you need a good pr team. lol. Henry II had it right, all those years ago. Yeah, that’s not the point. Is this what a strawman looks like? It was an example of how I feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacie Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 The inactions of the Blackhawks organization lead directly to at least one other victim being sexually assaulted, likely more. Are all the "PC" folks cool with another guy forcing a BJ and jerking off on your teenage son? Or yourself? Ultimately, that's what it's all about. Not a press conference or being PC or being media savvy. If you're not okay with someone being sexually assaulted, you have to act accordingly to hold the guilty responsible and protect others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagnam Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 3 minutes ago, buddha said: jonathan toews is now hitler. see? that's why you need a good pr team. lol. Henry II had it right, all those years ago. Also having a PR guy doesn’t make you any less of a piece of shit, it just allows you to hide. Interestingly, your take on the people involved in the coverup and enabling of a sexual assault has me looking at you completely differently than I did yesterday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 Just now, sagnam said: Also having a PR guy doesn’t make you any less of a piece of shit, it just allows you to hide. Interestingly, your take on the people involved in the coverup and enabling of a sexual assault has me looking at you completely differently than I did yesterday. wait, what did i say about the sexual assault and the cover up? i was talking about what toews said. also, you dont know me, so i dont really care what you think about me. and if youre going to be making character judgments on people based on a message board post, that says a lot more about you than me. people need to calm down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagnam Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 I don’t know you. I know who you present here. I felt one way about that presentation before this conversation. I am calm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 5 minutes ago, sagnam said: Yeah, that’s not the point. Is this what a strawman looks like? It was an example of how I feel. message board 101: sometimes people make different points about different aspects of the same subject. in true message board fashion, the conversation goes from "i think toews shouldnt have talked without a pr guy to advise him" to "buddha supports sexual assault." i think I'M the one that needs a good pr guy right about now. lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothfacekilla Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 44 minutes ago, sagnam said: Also having a PR guy doesn’t make you any less of a piece of shit, it just allows you to hide. Interestingly, your take on the people involved in the coverup and enabling of a sexual assault has me looking at you completely differently than I did yesterday. Ya this is a terrible look, yikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 (edited) .. Edited October 29, 2021 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said: and of course, none of what happened would have been possible without the general social homophobia made Beech afraid to be outed. Without that, Aldrich had no leverage over Beech (at the time) and Beech as likely kick Aldridge's ass as suffers the assault. So yeah - there is plenty of blame to go around. is beech gay? he's got a girlfriend. did aldrich say he was going to out him as gay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothfacekilla Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 Wow you just blamed Beech, at least you edited it out but holy shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothfacekilla Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 5 minutes ago, buddha said: is beech gay? he's got a girlfriend. did aldrich say he was going to out him as gay? No, Aldrich threatened him with a baseball bat and said if he told anyone Aldrich would end Beech's career. The little I see of gehrigher's post is utter bull shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kacie Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 When following up with the need for a PR guy, you expanded on that and felt that Toews couldn't possibly have said anything right and the collective "we" would not be happy unless he throws Bowman under the bus, says some phony PC apology. You also said you didn't have a problem with what Toews said, even though he specifically said that Bowman and MacIsaac were not complicit when the independent report said exactly that. Most of us at some point in our professional careers have to say what is expected. I mean, seriously, we see these teenagers get harassed by the maskless assholes keep their cool and be polite and say the right thing. None of us get a PR rep or a written statement. We just say what needs to be said based on being a professional, a decent human being and having half a brain. Jonathan Toews is a college educated long time team captain in his 30's. If he genuinely can't find the proper way to respond to the situation, it reflects poorly on him as a person, a leader, and a team mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said: No, Aldrich threatened him with a baseball bat and said if he told anyone Aldrich would end Beech's career. The little I see of gehrigher's post is utter bull shit. OK - I was honestly confused by what I have read in the thread and realized it and went back and reread the story, and I'm still confused. Now someone is talking baseball bat - in one of the earlier stories it did say Alridge theatened to smear him, not beat him. So I'll pass saying more until I'm more clear here. Edited October 29, 2021 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 4 minutes ago, Kacie said: Jonathan Toews is a college educated long time team captain in his 30's. If he genuinely can't find the proper way to respond to the situation, it reflects poorly on him as a person, a leader, and a team mate. that is fair enough, but not all that relevant for Beech. That is making Toews the story and he doesn't rate it. Unless there is something to actually hold him accountable for - and if there is that is what should be the topic. That a pro athlete is a narcissist is not news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 14 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said: Wow you just blamed Beech, at least you edited it out but holy shit. besides, how is it blaming Beech if he were gay? Whose biases are showing there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 13 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said: No, Aldrich threatened him with a baseball bat and said if he told anyone Aldrich would end Beech's career. The little I see of gehrigher's post is utter bull shit. that's what i thought. he told him he would end his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 (edited) TBH SFC, your post about 'homophobic slurs' is part of why I was confused. I obviously didn't take it the way you meant it. Edited October 29, 2021 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 14 minutes ago, Kacie said: When following up with the need for a PR guy, you expanded on that and felt that Toews couldn't possibly have said anything right and the collective "we" would not be happy unless he throws Bowman under the bus, says some phony PC apology. You also said you didn't have a problem with what Toews said, even though he specifically said that Bowman and MacIsaac were not complicit when the independent report said exactly that. Most of us at some point in our professional careers have to say what is expected. I mean, seriously, we see these teenagers get harassed by the maskless assholes keep their cool and be polite and say the right thing. None of us get a PR rep or a written statement. We just say what needs to be said based on being a professional, a decent human being and having half a brain. Jonathan Toews is a college educated long time team captain in his 30's. If he genuinely can't find the proper way to respond to the situation, it reflects poorly on him as a person, a leader, and a team mate. im pretty sure toews was saying bowman/mcissac didnt do it (as in, didnt do the assault), not that they werent involved in the decision not to immediately do something. but i could be wrong about that. again, that's why you just need to issue a statement and be done with it. throw em under the bus and move on. toews isnt a master at nuance, lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothfacekilla Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 13 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: OK - I was honestly confused by what I have read in the thread and realized it and went back and reread the story, and I'm still confused. Now someone is talking baseball bat - in one of the earlier stories it did say Alridge theatened to smear him, not beat him. So I'll pass saying more until I'm more clear here. Maybe read the report before talking about it then? Directly from the report, trigger warnings for sexual assault and violence: John Doe recalled that Aldrich “dry humped” John Doe until Aldrich ejaculated on John Doe’s back.162 John Doe recalled that Aldrich then wiped off John Doe’s back, stating words to the effect of: “You can’t tell anyone about this; it is our little secret; no one can find out or I will make sure you never play in the NHL.” The confidant recalled John Doe saying that he tried to push Aldrich back and Aldrich grabbed a Chicago Cubs souvenir bat or souvenir hockey stick and threatened to hit John Doe with the bat or stick, or did hit him with the bat or stick.186 The confidant recalled that John Doe said he could not “come to” and explained to the confidant that he felt that he was under the influence to a greater extent than the alcohol he had consumed.187 The confidant recalled that John Doe said Aldrich continued to perform oral sex on John Doe, masturbated, and ejaculated on John Doe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 Just now, gehringer_2 said: TBH SFC, your post about 'homophobic slurs' is part of why I was confused. i think there were reports of players calling each other names at practices and stuff after this, and homophonic slurs being directed at beech (and likely others considering these are professional athletes). i dont know if those slurs were being directed at beech because the players knew about this, but its certainly been implied that it was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, buddha said: that's what i thought. he told him he would end his career. so run this by me again because I'm missing it. Alridge is going to end Beech's career by injuring him, or by smearing him? And if the latter, what is the basis? If the smear is based on the event it's still fundamentally based on homophobia, is it not? If you are straight why to do care if you are accused of being gay if that is not does not have a negative shade? Edited October 29, 2021 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slothfacekilla Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 9 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: besides, how is it blaming Beech if he were gay? Whose biases are showing there? Please explain your words then: "and of course, none of what happened would have been possible without the general social homophobia made Beech afraid to be outed. Without that, Aldrich had no leverage over Beech (at the time) and Beech as likely kick Aldridge's ass as suffers the assault. So yeah - there is plenty of blame to go around. " Where are you assigning the blame here? Your words, not mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddha Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 Just now, gehringer_2 said: so run this by me again because I'm missing it. Alridge is going to end Beech's career by injuring him, or by smearing him? And if the latter, what is the basis? see sloth's post for the allegations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, slothfacekilla said: Please explain your words then: "and of course, none of what happened would have been possible without the general social homophobia made Beech afraid to be outed. Without that, Aldrich had no leverage over Beech (at the time) and Beech as likely kick Aldridge's ass as suffers the assault. So yeah - there is plenty of blame to go around. " Where are you assigning the blame here? Your words, not mine. I don't understand why you associate any assumption - whether incorrect or not, that Beech might be gay as constituting blaming him for anything. Is it any more or less a crime to rape a straight man than a gay one? The "blame to go around" refers to society as a whole having created homophobia - But if this is what you didn't read as I intended it I can see that now. Edited October 29, 2021 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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