Tiger337 Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 1 minute ago, casimir said: Sure, Harris is going to have to fill that role in the rotation. But does it have to be via free agency? A lot of (fan) hopes are pinned on Carpenter/Malloy/Keith/Jung. There's some questionable defense there. Maybe it makes sense to move one or two of those for other players. I am expecting trades and signings. They need at least one other proven position player too. Since the pitching free agent market is better than the hiting market this off-season, I am think they improve their pitching through free agency and hitting through trades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 27 minutes ago, mtutiger said: Even so, there's been a lot of "unsupported assumptions" about what management did or didn't do as far as a Plan B for Eduardo rejecting a trade, or even that there existed much of a market past the Dodgers for his services. All questions we don't know - when you add the opt-out and the absence last year, people should be open to the idea that maybe the Dodgers were the only alternative that made sense. I am open to anything, but it's hard to believe there wasn't multiple contending teams interested in a left-handed starter of his caliber. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatkoVarda Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 I am mentally preparing myself for another Winter of "Gosh, not just yet" as Harris sees what Avila-sourced players like Meadows, Keith, Perez, Dingler, and maybe Jung and Bigbie, can do. Without significant transactions, the payroll will be well short of $100M, which should get Harris a sweet bonus form Ilitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 46 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: I am expecting trades and signings. They need at least one other proven position player too. Since the pitching free agent market is better than the hiting market this off-season, I am think they improve their pitching through free agency and hitting through trades. I agree with you, they need another proven position player, and really maybe two. Definitely an IF, probably 3B. I really hadn't looked at the free agent pitching. I think they need another two rotation arms (Rodriguez is opting out) and maybe another relief arm or two. There's never enough pitching. But I think that the pitching staff for the Tigers is a strength, and hopefully they can leverage that as a significant asset to the arms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, casimir said: But I think that the pitching staff for the Tigers is a strength, and hopefully they can leverage that as a significant asset to the arms. It was a relative strength this year with Rodriguez and Lorenzen. Mize is coming back, so he can replace one of them. A full year of Skubal would help a lot too. I just don't trust Skubal/Mize/Manning to stay healthy.. I think it will be a disaster if they don't add at least one more starter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: It was a relative strength this year with Rodriguez and Lorenzen. Mize is coming back, so he can replace one of them. A full year of Skubal would help a lot too. I just don't trust Skubal/Mize/Manning to stay healthy.. I think it will be a disaster if they don't add at least one more starter. I see two SPs there. Mize will be returning from injury, so concern there is warranted. Manning's peripherals are more of a concern to me than his health. Bringing in 2 SPs fits well to begin the season. Faedo should be in the bullpen. Wentz can be in the Detroit bullpen or Toledo (I don't know his option scenario). Olson and Gipson-Long can be in Toledo biding their time. I wouldn't count on Turnbull returning. Brieske is a bit of a wildcard, but at worst he can be a long man out of the bullpen that could be stretched out? So maybe the wish list is an upper tier arm for one slot, and maybe the other slot is a bit dependent upon the health progression of Mize? Edited September 12, 2023 by casimir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 1 hour ago, casimir said: Sure, Harris is going to have to fill that role in the rotation. But does it have to be via free agency? A lot of (fan) hopes are pinned on Carpenter/Malloy/Keith/Jung. There's some questionable defense there. Maybe it makes sense to move one or two of those for other players. If we go outside, I'm thinking probably, yes. But I'm limited based on what I believe might be important to Harris right now, which I have be assuming is to continue to develop the guys at the top of our system to hone in on those worth keeping and those he might perhaps trade. But he might also do something we don't expect, like, I don't know, some "blockbuster" in which he deals two or more of your guys and others for top major league pitching now. But I think I'd be surprised to see that because we are still a chronically under-.500 team. If we were missing the playoffs by just a couple games, I could see that kind of trade as more likely. But since we're out of it by double digit games, I'd probably be surprised by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 2 hours ago, Tiger337 said: I am open to anything, but it's hard to believe there wasn't multiple contending teams interested in a left-handed starter of his caliber. Maybe they were but once they found out they weren't #1 and moved on. By the time Eduardo spiked it, the need for pitching or the pieces traded weren't available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 3 hours ago, RatkoVarda said: I am mentally preparing myself for another Winter of "Gosh, not just yet" as Harris sees what Avila-sourced players like Meadows, Keith, Perez, Dingler, and maybe Jung and Bigbie, can do. Without significant transactions, the payroll will be well short of $100M, which should get Harris a sweet bonus form Ilitch. It's time for Harris to make some real decisions, take some risks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 Just now, Edman85 said: Maybe they were but once they found out they weren't #1 and moved on. By the time Eduardo spiked it, the need for pitching or the pieces traded weren't available. All of that is very plausible. It's also possible that Harris didn't play it right and missed an opportunity. We'll never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 9 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: It's time for Harris to make some real decisions, take some risks. I don't think Harris's "REAL" decisions will be in this 2023-24 Offseason. I believe those will only start in the 2024-25 Offseason. And replacing Eduardo/ Lorenzen and adding maybe one position player (by trade or otherwise) are not really "real" decisions because that really is only treading water... IMO. When he gets to adding an "Ace" or a top-notch All-Star position player or even an average player but over and above what we've already got, from outside the organization, and however he gets that done (not counting the draft, but rather: Trades or FA...); that's what I would call his first "real" moves to position us for the playoffs. Again, I don't think that's 2023-24 as I believe he'll still be sifting through what we've got, or replacing what we have/ lost this year... but, rather... upgrades IMO begin in the 2024-25 offseason... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 11 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: I don't think Harris's "REAL" decisions will be in this 2023-24 Offseason. I believe those will only start in the 2024-25 Offseason. I was kind of being flippant, but I'd like to see him make his mark. Don't make a trade just to make a trade, but do something creative. Show me you're the genius everyone says you are. I want to see that Steve Kemp for Chet Lemon moment! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 45 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: I don't think Harris's "REAL" decisions will be in this 2023-24 Offseason. I believe those will only start in the 2024-25 Offseason. And replacing Eduardo/ Lorenzen and adding maybe one position player (by trade or otherwise) are not really "real" decisions because that really is only treading water... IMO. When he gets to adding an "Ace" or a top-notch All-Star position player or even an average player but over and above what we've already got, from outside the organization, and however he gets that done (not counting the draft, but rather: Trades or FA...); that's what I would call his first "real" moves to position us for the playoffs. Again, I don't think that's 2023-24 as I believe he'll still be sifting through what we've got, or replacing what we have/ lost this year... but, rather... upgrades IMO begin in the 2024-25 offseason... did Al take all the tapes and stats with him? why does he need two years to see what he's got ?..... stuff is on video coaches are still around from the Al days I dont understand this wait and see what he has talk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 13 minutes ago, Toddwert said: did Al take all the tapes and stats with him? why does he need two years to see what he's got ?..... stuff is on video coaches are still around from the Al days I dont understand this wait and see what he has talk Can't trust Avila's tapes and stats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 30 minutes ago, Toddwert said: did Al take all the tapes and stats with him? why does he need two years to see what he's got ?..... stuff is on video coaches are still around from the Al days I dont understand this wait and see what he has talk Al's players that actually matter are in their 1st or 2nd year, or are in Erie or Toledo... So... Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: ... I want to see that Steve Kemp for Chet Lemon moment! I would be thrilled with a move like that...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 the last 40 years should prove to you when you have young good pitching you dont wait and see ... pitchers have a finite life that you dont want to waste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Toddwert said: pitchers have a finite life that you dont want to waste As do we all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 13 minutes ago, chasfh said: As do we all. yet here we all are watching bad baseball again and again🤬 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, Toddwert said: yet here we all are watching bad baseball again and again🤬 Yeah, well, “waste” is a relative term in that case … 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 I really don’t see us trading for/signing a position player, unless they can upgrade at catcher. Tork, Javy, Greene, Carpenter are locks as starters. I think Malloy and Keith will be on the Opening Day roster. Jung has a very good chance of getting promoted at some point next season. I think it will come down to how much confidence they have in Meadows. Of course, Harris could package some prospects for an Arenado or other veteran. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 I think if he makes a trade for a significant position player it will be a minor league trade... some blocked player that's in AA or AAA.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 8 hours ago, Tenacious D said: I really don’t see us trading for/signing a position player, unless they can upgrade at catcher. Tork, Javy, Greene, Carpenter are locks as starters. I think Malloy and Keith will be on the Opening Day roster. Jung has a very good chance of getting promoted at some point next season. I think it will come down to how much confidence they have in Meadows. Of course, Harris could package some prospects for an Arenado or other veteran. I'm not sure about these two. It might happen, but I'm not sure Harris' track record this season suggests promoting them. Jung has all of 200 PAs at AA. I think if Keith couldn't get promoted this season with the offensive line he is putting up and what seems to be similar defensive "capabilities", its a pretty easy copy & paste to Jung. As for Keith, if he were a serious candidate for next season, why wouldn't they have promoted him for September in lieu of a non entity like Ibanez? And I guess the same could be said for Malloy, why not he rather than Nevin in September? I suppose there's still time to promote them, but what are we doing here? Playing time? Who is blocking them at 2B and 3B in Detroit now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 2 hours ago, casimir said: I'm not sure about these two. It might happen, but I'm not sure Harris' track record this season suggests promoting them. Jung has all of 200 PAs at AA. I think if Keith couldn't get promoted this season with the offensive line he is putting up and what seems to be similar defensive "capabilities", its a pretty easy copy & paste to Jung. As for Keith, if he were a serious candidate for next season, why wouldn't they have promoted him for September in lieu of a non entity like Ibanez? And I guess the same could be said for Malloy, why not he rather than Nevin in September? I suppose there's still time to promote them, but what are we doing here? Playing time? Who is blocking them at 2B and 3B in Detroit now? I think this is right. Malloy and Keith have serious defensive issues, and I’m pretty sure this FO is not going to punt on defense in order to get bats into the lineup. I think I remember someone suggesting we make Malloy basically a permanent DH. Setting aside the idea that having a permanent DH removes the flexibility of putting guys there who need a day off from the field but still need to keep their batting eye fresh—which was the problem with having Miggy on this team—I believe that if the 23-year-old hitting prospect you have is not able play any one position well enough at the big league level to put him there regularly, it’s time to figure out how to trade him to a team that actually doesn’t care about that, in exchange for someone more useful to you. Who knows, maybe that’s what the Braves were doing when they were willing to part with Malloy for Joe Jimenez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 A 23 year old DH only needs to be an Ohtani type hitter. Is Tork a long term answer at 1B? Is Carptenter long for the OF? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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