2021 NCAA Football Thread

[RandyMarsh]

1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Harbaugh is 10-14 against ranked opponents and 2-13 vs. Top 10. I guess all of those ranked and top 10 opponents have Heisman caliber running backs too. Or maybe, the coach just turtles up and gets out coached versus better opponents.

Ohio State just put 56 on MSU and contained Kenneth Walker to 25 yards and 0 TDs. Indiana contained Walker for 84 yards and 0 TDs. Nebraska gave up 61 yards and 0 TDs. Purdue did give up 137 yards but only one TD. Harbaugh and McDonald's defense surrendered 5 TDs and 197 yards. That is on the coaching staff, including both Harbaugh and Big Mac, for not coming out with the right game plan and not making the right defensive adjustments at halftime. Harbaugh routinely fails to respond with the right adjustments when other coaches change up their game plan and adjust. He also puts his kids in bad situations in big spots and loses the game for his team, see JJ McCarthy being put back in after fumbling vs MSU or Blake O'Neill not being given a max protect formation on trouble with the snap.

When Ohio State blows the doors off Michigan 62-30 and Harbaugh improves to 0-7 against Ohio State what will be the excuse then? Harbaugh had the right game plan and the kids just didn't execute?

Harbaugh is the worst big game coach at a major program I've ever watched, sans maybe Jeff Franklin. He and Franklin are one and the same, good recruiters who struggle with player development in certain areas, fail to make the right in-game adjustments, and come up short in big games.

And again, I'll go back the same point I've made since his loss to Ohio State in 2019. When Harbaugh was hired in as the next coach of Michigan, if someone told you that in 7 years he'd have only once developed his own QB, been 0-7 against Ohio State, 3-4 against MSU including a loss to MSU when it was their coaches first year, no Big Ten championship appearances, no CFB Playoff appearances, would you have been satisfied with it back when he was hired? If you wouldn't have accepted it back then, why accept it now.

THem getting blown out would further illustrate my point about the talent discrepancy.  Again a coach can only do so much ultimately 9 times out of 10 the team that has the most talent is the team that is going to win the game. That's why Harbaugh consistently wins against the lesser teams cause he has the superior talent, if anything that should be a feather in his cap to show that he has his troops not looking past guys every week or playing down to their competition which is what OSU does once in a while.

We all saw yesterday what a motivated OSU team is capable, they blew the doors off of MSU and Mel Tucker who you seem to think is so great. Well OSU is motivated like that every time they face Michigan, they never get the benefit of them potentially looking past them. So again unless you think you can find  a coach that can somehow steal the top talent away from OSU then you're going to continue to be unsatisfied no matter who is here and I got news for you unless things change in CFB or if UM is willing to start fighting dirty like other schools that is not going to happen.  

[gehringer_2]

15 hours ago, buddha said:

nd will not leap frog cincy or michigan this week.

One for two. 

[buddha]

45 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

THem getting blown out would further illustrate my point about the talent discrepancy.  Again a coach can only do so much ultimately 9 times out of 10 the team that has the most talent is the team that is going to win the game. That's why Harbaugh consistently wins against the lesser teams cause he has the superior talent, if anything that should be a feather in his cap to show that he has his troops not looking past guys every week or playing down to their competition which is what OSU does once in a while.

We all saw yesterday what a motivated OSU team is capable, they blew the doors off of MSU and Mel Tucker who you seem to think is so great. Well OSU is motivated like that every time they face Michigan, they never get the benefit of them potentially looking past them. So again unless you think you can find  a coach that can somehow steal the top talent away from OSU then you're going to continue to be unsatisfied no matter who is here and I got news for you unless things change in CFB or if UM is willing to start fighting dirty like other schools that is not going to happen.  

its no use talking sense to tater.  unless michigan is 12-0 every year TEH COACH MUST BE FIRED!!!!!!

[buddha]

1 minute ago, gehringer_2 said:

One for two. 

rankings come out tomorrow.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

37 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

So again unless you think you can find  a coach that can somehow steal the top talent away from OSU then you're going to continue to be unsatisfied no matter who is here and I got news for you unless things change in CFB or if UM is willing to start fighting dirty like other schools that is not going to happen.  

I've got several names that, if given the chance to recruit the way needed, I believe could get the job done and compete against Ohio State and MSU. Remember, Harbaugh isn't even winning against MSU at this point, so it's not just Ohio State that's owning Harbaugh, Tucker and MSU are too. I've obviously beat the Luke Fickell narrative to death, but Fickell is still choice #1 and the first guy I'd make a play for. If he says no, then you take your loss and move on. I think Brent Vnebeles and Tony Elliot from Clemson would be two strong candidates as well. Two other names to consider who could fit that bill include Matt Campbell and Bob Stoops.

Also, good coaches get fired all the time. Ohio State fired John Cooper for the very same reasons I want Harbaugh fired. Evreyone in Buckeye nation new Cooper was a good coach, but they also set their sights hired and didn't accept a mediocrity or adopt a losing mentality. They obviously took a gamble firing Cooper and going with Tresell and low and behold it worked out. Georgia fired Mark Richt and he had more success against his rivals in the tougher SEC than Harbaugh has had here in the Big Ten. If Ohio State in our own backyard can do it and Georgia can do it, no reason we can't either.

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, buddha said:

rankings come out tomorrow.

true, coaches and AP both bumped ND past UM.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

9 minutes ago, buddha said:

its no use talking sense to tater.  unless michigan is 12-0 every year TEH COACH MUST BE FIRED!!!!!!

When the Ohio State and Michigan State games role around on the schedule don't act like you care about winning them. When you are 0-6 against Ohio State and have yet to beat the brand new head coach at the other school and have a losing record against MSU over the past decade and a half, those aren't competitive rivalries anymore. Be intellectually honest and publicly accept that Michigan can pencil in two loses every year from here on out on their schedule.

And no, I don't expect 12-0. I want what Ohio Sate did to John Cooper and Georgia to Mark Richt, to happen here at Michigan. Imagine if Georgia shrugged their shoulders and kept Richt or Ohio State with Cooper and they never made the changes. Kirby Smart, Jim Tressel and Urban Meyer would have likely had success, just elsewhere.

Edited November 21, 2021 by Mr.TaterSalad

[buddha]

4 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

When the Ohio State and Michigan State games role around on the schedule don't act like you care about winning them. When you are 0-6 against Ohio State and have yet to beat the brand new head coach at the other school and have a losing record against MSU over the past decade and a half, those aren't competitive rivalries anymore. Be intellectually honest and publicly accept that Michigan can pencil in two loses every year from here on out on their schedule.

And no, I don't expect 12-0. I want what Ohio Sate did to Jon Cooper and Georgia to Mark Richt, to happen here at Michigan. Imagine if Georgia shrugged their shoulders and kept Richt or Ohio State with Cooper and they never made the changes. Kirby Smart, Jim Tressel and Urban Meyer would have likely had success, just elsewhere.

michigan-msu isnt a competitive rivalry anymore?

listen to yourself.  take a step back off the ledge.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Why does Ohio State get to say John Cooper going 2-10-1 against Lloyd Carr and Michigan is unacceptable but we don't get to have the same mentality when it comes to Harbaugh going 0-6 (about to be 0-7) against them?

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Just now, buddha said:

michigan-msu isnt a competitive rivalry anymore?

listen to yourself.  take a step back off the ledge.

I posted the stat yesterday and I'll say it again, if Harbaugh stays here as long as his mentor Bo did, 21 seasons, his record against MSU is on track to being 3-18 overall and 0-14 against Mel Tucker. We know Tucker's in his head now and once you get in Harbaugh's head it's tough for him to win against you.

[buddha]

17 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

I posted the stat yesterday and I'll say it again, if Harbaugh stays here as long as his mentor Bo did, 21 seasons, his record against MSU is on track to being 3-18 overall and 0-14 against Mel Tucker. We know Tucker's in his head now and once you get in Harbaugh's head it's tough for him to win against you.

lol.  

[Mr.TaterSalad]

11 minutes ago, buddha said:

lol.  

"Those who stay will be 9-3." - Bo

I absolutely love it, a program falls on its face like Michigan has during big games and fans change their narrative to accept that level of mediocrity instead of demanding more. When Jim Harbaugh was hired in here in December of 2014 Michigan fans were elated, me included. As a collective, it seemed like everyone was excited about the prospect of beating Ohio State again, being competitive with Michigan State and taking back that rivalry, going to Big Ten Championships and maybe even a CFB Playoff. Now, instead of demanding more and expecting excellence out of a storied college football program (we're not Indiana here), some fans just shrug their shoulders and say oh well. Oh well to ever beating Ohio State. Oh well to ever beating Mel Tucker and MSU. Oh well to a Big Ten Championship and oh well to a CFB Playoff appearance. All the things fans expected at the onset of Harbaugh's tenure suddenly don't matter anymore, at least to some fans, and so they simply lower expectations and adopt a new mentality. Oh well!

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

"Those who stay will be 9-3." - Bo

I absolutely love it, a program falls on its face like Michigan has during big games and fans change their narrative to accept that level of mediocrity instead of demanding more. When Jim Harbaugh was hired in here in December of 2014 Michigan fans were elated, me included. As a collective, it seemed like everyone was excited about the prospect of beating Ohio State again, being competitive with Michigan State and taking back that rivalry, going to Big Ten Championships and maybe even a CFB Playoff. Now, instead of demanding more and expecting excellence out of a storied college football program (we're not Indiana here), some fans just shrug their shoulders and say oh well. Oh well to ever beating Ohio State. Oh well to ever beating Mel Tucker and MSU. Oh well to a Big Ten Championship and oh well to a CFB Playoff appearance. All the things fans expected at the onset of Harbaugh's tenure suddenly don't matter anymore, at least to some fans, and so they simply lower expectations and adopt a new mentality. Oh well!

to be honest with you Tater, I'm the kind of fan you are talking about, and to me each day says more and more that college football is going to be transitioning into something quite different than what it has been (at least in the B10) and until the future clarifies a little I don't mind if they are just treading water for a few years until whatever new landscape appears and they figure out where and if they even have a place in it. A lot of people are going try hard to maintain some semblance of something that continues to be recognizable as intercollegiate sports. But in the end if they fail and we end up with nothing more than the NFL V0.25, it's going to lose whatever place it had in the overall life of the institution. 

[buddha]

21 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

"Those who stay will be 9-3." - Bo

I absolutely love it, a program falls on its face like Michigan has during big games and fans change their narrative to accept that level of mediocrity instead of demanding more. When Jim Harbaugh was hired in here in December of 2014 Michigan fans were elated, me included. As a collective, it seemed like everyone was excited about the prospect of beating Ohio State again, being competitive with Michigan State and taking back that rivalry, going to Big Ten Championships and maybe even a CFB Playoff. Now, instead of demanding more and expecting excellence out of a storied college football program (we're not Indiana here), some fans just shrug their shoulders and say oh well. Oh well to ever beating Ohio State. Oh well to ever beating Mel Tucker and MSU. Oh well to a Big Ten Championship and oh well to a CFB Playoff appearance. All the things fans expected at the onset of Harbaugh's tenure suddenly don't matter anymore, at least to some fans, and so they simply lower expectations and adopt a new mentality. Oh well!

every one of your posts should start with "thanks mike, long time listener, first time caller..."

[gehringer_2]

6 minutes ago, buddha said:

every one of your posts should start with "thanks mike, long time listener, first time caller..."

Speaking of Valenti, he should be in fun form this week. He had himself convinced MSU was going to give OSU a game....

[casimir]

9 hours ago, Motor City Sonics said:

How I think it ends up? 

Ohio State beats Michigan by 20-24, then beats Wisconsin by even more

Georgia beats Alabama by 14-17 in the title game

Cincinnati loses to Houston

Notre Dame beats Stanford by 10-14 and does not have to play in the ACC title game

Oklahoma State beats Oklhaoma and then Baylor

Utah beats Oregon again

We end up with........

1. Georgia  (SEC Champ)

2. Ohio State  (Big Ten Champ)

3. Notre Dame  (At-Large)

4. Oklahoma State (Big 12 Champ)

-----------------------------------

5. Alabama  

6. Michigan   

7. Houston  (AAC Champ 

8 Utah (Pac 12 Champ)

9. Pittsburgh (ACC Champ)

10. Cincinnati

 

COTTON BOWL - Ohio State vs. Notre Dame

ORANGE - Georgia vs. Oklahoma State

 

 

ROSE BOWL - Michigan vs. Utah

SUGAR BOWL  - Alabama vs. Oklahoma

FIESTA BOWL -  Houston vs. Wisconsin

PEACH BOWL - Cincinnati vs. Pittsburgh

SUN BOWL - Clemson vs. Oregon

OUTBACK - Michigan State vs. Mississippi

CITRUS - Iowa vs. Texas A&M

ARIZONA - Eastern Michigan vs. Utah State

BIRMINGHAM -  Western Michigan vs. South Carolina

IDAHO POTATO - Central Michigan vs. Nevada

 

 

 

 

 

I’d love a chance to beat Our Lady.

[Mr.TaterSalad]

7 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

to be honest with you Tater, I'm the kind of fan you are talking about, and to me each day says more and more that college football is going to be transitioning into something quite different than what it has been (at least in the B10) and until the future clarifies a little I don't mind if they are just treading water for a few years until whatever new landscape appears and they figure out where and if they even have a place in it. A lot of people are going try hard to maintain some semblance of something that continues to be recognizable as intercollegiate sports. But in the end if they fail and we end up with nothing more than the NFL V0.25, it's going to lose whatever place it had in the overall life of the institution. 

So you are ok with losing 56-27 or something similarly big every year to Ohio State and never beating Michigan State again for the foreseeable future?

[Mr.TaterSalad]

SI: Michigan Has a Transfer Problem

Another amazing stat I read was that Harbaugh has had 61 transfers out of the program over the past 3 seasons alone. That's an entire recruiting class worth of transfers at Michigan. For context, Michigan State, which changed over its entire coaching staff, had only 31 transfers in that time frame. Ohio State also had 31 and Wisconsin had 21. That says something about the culture Harbaugh has built at Michigan. Something Harbaugh and his staff are doing is causing a mass exodus of players every season. He is burning out and/or alienating kids quickly and frequently.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Something Harbaugh and his staff are doing is causing a mass exodus of players every season. He is burning out and/or alienating kids quickly and frequently.

Could be he's had some coaches that didn't connect well, could be why a bunch of them are gone. But the other thing that plays into this is that Harbaugh has had decent recruiting classes -relatively anyway. When kids who had other options before they signed up with you get to Ann Arbor and then find themselves not starting they bail, and Harbaugh doesn't lie to them (or apparently pay them) to try and freeze them in place like Urban Meyer used to when he was at Columbus. And it's the right thing to do. Charbonnet is having a nice career in LA. He'd be sitting in the bench in Ann Arbor. I give JH credit for being OK with with all  the kids he recruits getting a chance to play even if it's not with UM. The wrong guys are going to leave sometimes but that's the kind of thing that should make college football a different animal from pro football. When/If the college game finally loses that last trace of being about the players, I'm not going to care about it anymore anyway. One chance to rethink your commitment seems fair to me.

The Bo line about 'those who stay" has always been BS. Players go through the work and pain to become players so they can play, not so they can sit on the bench and watch better players on their team reap the accolades. If a kid can go somewhere else and play, he should, and his coaches should support him. Otherwise you're just using kids. The coaches that won't support kids are the bigger threat to the future of college sports than the ones that will. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by gehringer_2

[romad1]

16 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

Speaking of Valenti, he should be in fun form this week. He had himself convinced MSU was going to give OSU a game....

Hopefully on Saturday we get a montage of Jim Harbaugh in a cathedral baptizing his son while OSU is defeated on the field, Moe Green is shot in the eye on a massage table, MSU is denuded by PSU, Don Carmine is shot in an elevator by a shotgun...etc. 

[buddha]

ohio state opens at -7.5.  holy smokes that's low.

[gehringer_2]

10 minutes ago, buddha said:

ohio state opens at -7.5.  holy smokes that's low.

If you look at a couple of the head to heads (other than MSU) at just the right angle this game looks like it could be closer than any Michigan fan with eyes believes it will be.

Edited November 22, 2021 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

47 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

If you look at a couple of the head to heads (other than MSU) at just the right angle this game looks like it could be closer than any Michigan fan with eyes believes it will be.

michigan has been favored or a slight underdog at home to osu the last few times theyve played and theyve gotten the doors blown off them each time.

i have a had time seeing how this one will be any different.  i would really like it to be, but i have a hard time seeing it happen.

[gehringer_2]

14 minutes ago, buddha said:

michigan has been favored or a slight underdog at home to osu the last few times theyve played and theyve gotten the doors blown off them each time.

i have a had time seeing how this one will be any different.  i would really like it to be, but i have a hard time seeing it happen.

we'll see if the money moves this pretty quick ... or not....

[RandyMarsh]

Well the one year Michigan had the lead either late in the 3rd or early 4th before JT Barrett got injured and a never before seen Haskins came into the game and torched things to give OSU the win. Another game is that infamous OT game where there was that questionable 4th down spot. So yeah Michigan got torched the last 2 times they played them but it's not like every single game has been a total blowout under Harbaugh. If the same OSU team that showed up against MSU shows up against UM then it most certainly will be but if they have a regular or down game I think UM could hang with them.