2021 NCAA Football Thread

[gehringer_2]

 

Speaking of OSU.

Ewers is gone.

QB goes to Columbus, doesn't play, walks away taking a 7 figure $$ NIL deal through the portal with him. 

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/32781078/ohio-state-quarterback-quinn-ewers-set-enter-transfer-portal

the team, the team, the team,..............my deal, my deal, my deal!

Edited December 4, 2021 by gehringer_2

[Hongbit]

We are witnessing two massive shifts happening to college football in real time.   
 

The first is that is now becoming acceptable for coaches to leave their team before the season is over to take another job.   This is a unwanted by product of the new early signing period in mid December.  In the past, hiring schools and the head coach were content to wait until seasons end in early January.  Not the case anymore as these schools are insisting on taking as much advantage of the December window as possible.  In the end this is bad for the game as coaches don’t finish what they start and have truly become hired guns for the money.    
 

Second is the complete change in how schools recruit QB’s and in turn manage a QB depth chart.   The portal along with  instant eligibility means that every single year there will be highly rated, experienced QB’s that schools can acquire almost like NFL free agency.   It doesn’t mean as much when your school signs a 4 or 5 star QB since they either play early or leave.  If they leave, it’s not that big of a deal since you can find one from somewhere else looking for a change.    The challenge is picking the right one.   The Pac-12 championship last night is a great example.   Oregon’s season fell apart because they picked the wrong QB.   Anthony Brown was very successful at BC for 2 years and was thought to be a perfect fit in the Ducks offense.    He was terrible and had big problems with accuracy all season.   Utah picked up Cam Rising from Texas where he wasn’t good enough to play and it turns out he led Utah to the Rose Bowl.   Oregon with Rising is probably a playoff team.  Why was Oregon in the hunt for a QB in the first place?  Last year’s QB Tyler Shough had an up and down season and chose to surprise transfer in the off-season to Texas Tech.  It’s like rolling a die and hoping through luck your number hits with the most important part of your football team. 
 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Hongbit

[gehringer_2]

22 minutes ago, Hongbit said:

We are witnessing two massive shifts happening to college football in real time.   
 

The first is that is now becoming acceptable for coaches to leave their team before the season is over to take another job.   This is a unwanted by product of the new early signing period in mid December.  In the past, hiring schools and the head coach were content to wait until seasons end in early January.  Not the case anymore as these schools are insisting on taking as much advantage of the December window as possible.  In the end this is bad for the game as coaches don’t finish what they start and have truly become hired guns for the money.    
 

Second is the complete change in how schools recruit QB’s and in turn manage a QB depth chart.   The portal along with  instant eligibility means that every single year there will be highly rated, experienced QB’s that schools can acquire almost like NFL free agency.   It doesn’t mean as much when your school signs a 4 or 5 star QB since they either play early or leave.  If they leave, it’s not that big of a deal since you can find one from somewhere else looking for a change.    The challenge is picking the right one.   The Pac-12 championship last night is a great example.   Oregon’s season fell apart because they picked the wrong QB.   Anthony Brown was very successful at BC for 2 years and was thought to be a perfect fit in the Ducks offense.    He was terrible and had big problems with accuracy all season.   Utah picked up Cam Rising from Texas where he wasn’t good enough to play and it turns out he led Utah to the Rose Bowl.   Oregon with Rising is probably a playoff team.  Why was Oregon in the hunt for a QB in the first place?  Last year’s QB Tyler Shlough  had an up and down season and chose to surprise transfer him seem to Texas Tech.  It’s like rolling a die and hoping through luck your number hits with the most important part of your football team. 
 

could be an irony that the most desirable QB might be a guy like Ewers who still has freshman eligibility (not sure if Ewers does or not but that's not the point, he could...) and has burned his transfer already.

Also that means that the team with the best chance it land most top recruit QBs is going to be the one that has the biggest sugar daddy lined up to give him the biggest NIL deal. I wonder if the folks in Columbus feel burned that they they didn't tie Ewers' deal to staying there - or maybe the people that gave him the deal aren't ever local and don't care - not a detail I want to know more about. I find it all depressing. Functionally NIL is basically taking the game right back to bad old dirty boosters days, but just like baseball and gambling, we are told by our new overlords that we can forget all those arguments from the past about why these things are bad ideas. Relax, that was then, this is now!     (sure...........until it isn't......)

So of course you know where this recruiting arms race will have to ultimately end? A HS recruit draft.

Edited December 4, 2021 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

34 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

could be an irony that the most desirable QB might be a guy like Ewers who still has freshman eligibility (not sure if Ewers does or not but that's not the point, he could...) and has burned his transfer already.

Also that means that the team with the best chance it land most top recruit QBs is going to be the one that has the biggest sugar daddy lined up to give him the biggest NIL deal. I wonder if the folks in Columbus feel burned that they they didn't tie Ewers' deal to staying there - or maybe the people that gave him the deal aren't ever local and don't care - not a detail I want to know more about. I find it all depressing. Functionally NIL is basically taking the game right back to bad old dirty boosters days, but just like baseball and gambling, we are told by our new overlords that we can forget all those arguments from the past about why these things are bad ideas. Relax, that was then, this is now!     (sure...........until it isn't......)

So of course you know where this recruiting arms race will have to ultimately end? A HS recruit draft.

what should american sports "do" about legalized gambling?  

sports in every country in the world have betting houses in the stadiums and are sponsored by betting houses.  are those sports illegitimate in some way?

i cant get over this american notion of purity in their sports that is somehow despoiled by any association with people betting on the game.

as to college football, its just another sign of the erosion of the fiction of the "student athlete."  just get it over with and make it an official minor league.  make the nfl pay them.

[gehringer_2]

20 minutes ago, buddha said:

as to college football, its just another sign of the erosion of the fiction of the "student athlete."  just get it over with and make it an official minor league.  make the nfl pay them.

that's no answer to the recruiting morass that NIL is going to create. One of the reasons other sports have organized minor leagues to create an organized system of player procurement. You could basically transplant the NHL system into football, where guys are drafted and then go to school while already 'belonging' to a pro team. But NIL even upsets that, because even if a player is already property of a pro team you face financial bidding to get him to come to your school. It's not a matter of purity, it's a matter of having some semblance of an orderly system that doesn't bankrupt the schools for the privilege of playing. If recruits have an opportunity to be paid competitively to attend a school, it seems inevitable that the schools are going to figure they need to have a draft system. *Every* pro league has come to that same conclusion. If NCAA football becomes professional, why should it avoid that same end point?

[gehringer_2]

40 minutes ago, buddha said:

it an official minor league

and this is nowhere as simple as just tossing it out there. Lets look at numbers. There are 32 NFL teams. How many would want more than 1 top minor league affiliate? But you have 128 in the FCS. Who gets to decide who affiliates and who gets left out? There are lots of moving parts here and no-one really knows what the end point looks like. Plus you have the basic question of what kind of connection you end up with between a college, its team and a sponsoring pro team. Do the schools get keep their gates if the NFL is paying the salaries? What will it take in the long run to keep the schools 'in the game' so to speak. You still have to pay them to keep them playing. If you make a college team a minor league team, what do you do with players that the NFL doesn't want but are still better than anyone else on the current team? Can the school keep them a al AAA? If not where do they go? What is a 'college' football team with 50% of their guys 25 yrs old?

I really don't have a dog in this fight, I don't care what it looks like in the end, but I'm just continually surprised that people think that somehow you can change the single most important thing - a system of player compensation, and not have that drive change in everything else. 

[buddha]

26 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

that's no answer to the recruiting morass that NIL is going to create. One of the reasons other sports have organized minor leagues to create an organized system of player procurement. You could basically transplant the NHL system into football, where guys are drafted and then go to school while already 'belonging' to a pro team. But NIL even upsets that, because even if a player is already property of a pro team you face financial bidding to get him to come to your school. It's not a matter of purity, it's a matter of having some semblance of an orderly system that doesn't bankrupt the schools for the privilege of playing. If recruits have an opportunity to be paid competitively to attend a school, it seems inevitable that the schools are going to figure they need to have a draft system. *Every* pro league has come to that same conclusion. If NCAA football becomes professional, why should it avoid that same end point?

the draft was put in place by an ownership group determined to 1) strike up interest in the league, and 2) make sure their lowliest franchises have a means to get better and thus raise revenues for all the members in their ownership club.

you dont have either of those drivers in college sports and there will be no draft.

more likely will be the big schools breaking away and forming their own league separate from the ncaa.  then they can pay whatever they want for their "student athletes."

and honestly, it will be the best thing for the players.  they will get money and have the opportunity for a degree from the best educational system in the world.  should they choose to take it.

[gehringer_2]

28 minutes ago, buddha said:

more likely will be the big schools breaking away and forming their own league separate from the ncaa.  then they can pay whatever they want for their "student athletes."

we just disagree here. There is no way any conference will allow a cost free for all on signings. Ain't gonna happen - at least if they have anything to say about it - and I grant it's possible, though I still believe unlikely, they won't.

Edited December 4, 2021 by gehringer_2

[buddha]

8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

we just disagree here. There is no way any conference will allow a cost free for all on signings. Ain't gonna happen.

the boosters will pay for it.  like they do now.

[MichiganCardinal]

Baylor up 21-13 on OK State midway through the 3rd quarter. You'd figure a win by Baylor about locks up Cincinnati's berth (with a win over Houston), and also opens a path for a coachless Notre Dame or a two-loss Alabama to get the 4th spot.

[MichiganCardinal]

The Big 12 is putting on an ugly display on National TV. OK State's QB Spencer Sanders is 19/31, 160 yds, 0 TDs, 4 INTs.

... And Baylor muffs a punt. Neither team wants this.

[MichiganCardinal]

Oklahoma State had seven opportunities in the 4th quarter to get a TD from inside the 2 and couldn't capitalize. Ended on a stretch to the pylon that came up inches short.

Baylor wins. Have to think Notre Dame has the inside track to the playoff now, along with Georgia, Michigan, and Cincy.

[gehringer_2]

4 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Oklahoma State had seven opportunities in the 4th quarter to get a TD from inside the 2 and couldn't capitalize. Ended on a stretch to the pylon that came up inches short.

Baylor wins. Have to think Notre Dame has the inside track to the playoff now, along with Georgia, Michigan, and Cincy.

yeah - that was about as 'down to the wire' as a football game can be. The way Baylor's D gave up the 1st 90 yrds didn't inspire much confidence they would hold in the end.

[casimir]

4 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

Have to think Notre Dame has the inside track to the playoff now, along with Georgia, Michigan, and Cincy.

Not so fast, my friend!

[RandyMarsh]

Oregon Head Coach Mario Cristobal is reportedly going to be taking the Miami job. I think it's a solid hire for Miami despite Oregon's performance in the Pac-12 Championship and it opens up another high profile Head Coaching opening. Also if Oregon doesn't hit a home run things could get even easier for Lincoln Riley and USC in the Pac-12. 

[djhutch]

On 12/4/2021 at 11:36 AM, buddha said:

what should american sports "do" about legalized gambling?  

sports in every country in the world have betting houses in the stadiums and are sponsored by betting houses.  are those sports illegitimate in some way?

i cant get over this american notion of purity in their sports that is somehow despoiled by any association with people betting on the game.

as to college football, its just another sign of the erosion of the fiction of the "student athlete."  just get it over with and make it an official minor league.  make the nfl pay them.

I think the notion of purity, as you put it, started with the Black Sox scandal. It has stuck around, especially in baseball with the Pete Rose mess, but leaked into other sports as well because we are terrible as a society at understanding nuances.

[buddha]

12 minutes ago, djhutch said:

I think the notion of purity, as you put it, started with the Black Sox scandal. It has stuck around, especially in baseball with the Pete Rose mess, but leaked into other sports as well because we are terrible as a society at understanding nuances.

i think it has to do with america's long history of extreme religious protestantism.  our moralism about vices and "hang ups" on everything from sex to gambling and drugs/alcohol.

but as to a point in time where the modern narrative surrounding baseball's issues with gambling, i think you are correct.

[romad1]

33 minutes ago, buddha said:

i think it has to do with america's long history of extreme religious protestantism.  our moralism about vices and "hang ups" on everything from sex to gambling and drugs/alcohol.

but as to a point in time where the modern narrative surrounding baseball's issues with gambling, i think you are correct.

There is a long history of ethical behavior being a contingent requirement of the professions.  So, as our economy involved more and more specialization we require our doctors not to be butchers, our dentists not to sexually exploit their patients.  And for our athletes not to be beholden to the gambling and mafia elements.  Yep, its a minimal requirement of civilization that we hold people to certain moral and ethical standards.   

Or, you could have sports be pro wrestling.

Edited December 6, 2021 by romad1

[MichiganCardinal]

I still want to see a 12-team playoff. Power 5 champions get the top five seeds (until the Big 12 finally folds, then just top four seeds). Top four teams get a bye, the best Go5 champion gets #12 seed, everything else is wildcards.

Byes: (1) Alabama, (2) Michigan, (3) Baylor, (4) Utah

(5) Pitt v. (12) Cincinnati

(6) Georgia v. (11) Michigan State

(7) Notre Dame v. (10) Oklahoma State

(8) Ohio State v. (9) Ole Miss

[gehringer_2]

22 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I still want to see a 12-team playoff. Power 5 champions get the top five seeds (until the Big 12 finally folds, then just top four seeds). Top four teams get a bye, the best Go5 champion gets #12 seed, everything else is wildcards.

Byes: (1) Alabama, (2) Michigan, (3) Baylor, (4) Utah

(5) Pitt v. (12) Cincinnati

(6) Georgia v. (11) Michigan State

(7) Notre Dame v. (10) Oklahoma State

(8) Ohio State v. (9) Ole Miss

At least I don't think this year's field is very controversial. It could be moreso in retrospect if both Georgia and Bama lose their semi.

Edited December 6, 2021 by gehringer_2

[MichiganCardinal]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

At least I don't think this year's field is very controversial. It could be moreso in retrospect if both Georgia and Bama lose their semi.

The lack of controversy is nice, but I still don't think we will get to see the teams that are not Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, and Oklahoma compete for championships on a consistent basis without expansion. I also think it would be nice to let a school like Pitt capitalize on their ACC championship, or let a team who surprised with a 10-2 record like Michigan State or Ole Miss attempt to make a run.

I am almost certain that at least one team in the 6-12 range of the rankings would have won a National Championship in the last decade if given the opportunity.

[djhutch]

On 12/6/2021 at 12:43 PM, buddha said:

i think it has to do with america's long history of extreme religious protestantism.  our moralism about vices and "hang ups" on everything from sex to gambling and drugs/alcohol.

but as to a point in time where the modern narrative surrounding baseball's issues with gambling, i think you are correct.

You're not wrong about the moralism though. I have committed the last 25 years of my life to working at a non-profit, Christian ministry. The stories I could tell about what ruffles peoples feathers would astound you.

[CMRivdogs]

Seeing reports that Josh Gattis may be in the mix to replace Bronco Mendenhall at UVa

[MichiganCardinal]

1 hour ago, CMRivdogs said:

Seeing reports that Josh Gattis may be in the mix to replace Bronco Mendenhall at UVa

He's earned the looks he's getting. Hopefully he sticks around into January though and doesn't pull a Brian Kelly.

[gehringer_2]

On 12/6/2021 at 4:31 PM, MichiganCardinal said:

The lack of controversy is nice, but I still don't think we will get to see the teams that are not Alabama, Ohio State, Clemson, and Oklahoma compete for championships on a consistent basis without expansion. I also think it would be nice to let a school like Pitt capitalize on their ACC championship, or let a team who surprised with a 10-2 record like Michigan State or Ole Miss attempt to make a run.

I am almost certain that at least one team in the 6-12 range of the rankings would have won a National Championship in the last decade if given the opportunity.

But what does that mean? We know that the outcome of single game between two teams does not really resolve which team is 'better' in any general sense. If UM played OSU each week for 10 weeks I would not put a nickel on Michigan winning 5 or more.  So of course if 12 teams play the outcome is going to have a high degree of randomness overlaying what ever 'real' difference there is in the quality of the teams. The initial idea of the tournament was to resolve the argument between which of the *small* number of teams that might all have some level of support for deserving the overall championship, i.e., those that got 1st place votes in a split poll. There is no way there are any number of people are contending the #12 team may really be the best in the country. There are reasons for having tournaments ($$$) but widening the tournament in football will just dilute the degree to which its winner is going to be the team most people believe is the best team - so that is not the reason this one will expand. The expanded playoff just moves you closer to the situation like the baseball playoff, where the winner is no-more than the team on the best short term run. The Braves may have won the WS, but would any sane baseball person exchange take the 2021 Braves in for the 2021 Dodgers or Giants?