09/10/2023 1:10 pm EDT Chicago White Sox vs Detroit Tigers

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, mtutiger said:

The reaction to the trade suggested that it was an example of how terrible Avila was that he didn't get more for Fulmer's services.

I liked the Fulmer trade.

I thought Sawyer Gipson-Long was Olson 2.0... I approved.

[mtutiger]

54 minutes ago, RatkoVarda said:

Avila sat on a valuable asset - a young, cost controlled starter, ROY, All Star - until injuries set in and that asset became a middling, old, blah reliever. If GL joins Wentz and Olsen in the 4th to 8th starter roles, great! Avila perhaps got a useful piece yet again.

Fulmer just another example of Avila's failure to maximize his assets.

Sure, he should have traded Fulmer a lot earlier. No argument there.

But there was a collective freak out (myself included) when all the last deadline yielded was Fulmer for unranked Sawyer Gipson-Long. It appears that Gipson-Long, in fact, may have been fairer value than we all thought. 

[Tiger337]

1 minute ago, mtutiger said:

Sure, he should have traded Fulmer a lot earlier. No argument there.

But there was a collective freak out (myself included) when all the last deadline yielded was Fulmer for unranked Sawyer Gipson-Long. It appears that Gipson-Long, in fact, may have been fairer value than we all thought. 

"we all"

[mtutiger]

Just now, Tiger337 said:

"we all"

Would you not agree that there was a lot of anger and resentment at the end of the last deadline based on the returns?

[Tiger337]

Just now, mtutiger said:

Would you not agree that there was a lot of anger and resentment at the end of the last deadline based on the returns?

I don't really remember.  There was a lot of anger towards Avila in general at that point.  In reality, teams don't generally get top prospects at the deadline unless they are dealing a top starter or stud closer.  I'll be happy when the Tigers are no longer in the position of deadline seller.  

[mtutiger]

Just now, Tiger337 said:

I don't really remember.  There was a lot of anger towards Avila in general at that point.  In reality, teams don't generally get top prospects at the deadline unless they are dealing a top starter or stud closer.  I'll be happy when the Tigers are no longer in the position of deadline seller.  

Let's refresh our memory...

 

[mtutiger]

I could go on but, by and large, nobody expected this kid to succeed... and hardly anybody thought the trade at the moment was fair value.

[mtutiger]

Here's another doozy, granted from a lurker...

But yeah, I'm just full of it when I suggest that Tigers fans by and large didnt think the trade was fair value lol

Edited September 10, 2023 by mtutiger

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, mtutiger said:

Thus far I've resisted the whole "maybe Al wasn't that bad"... thing.

But I do think the collective freak out when Michael Fulmer only returned unranked Sawyer Gipson-Long makes one think... 

Makes me think how badly the Avila administration would probably have botched his developmentent. 😉

[mtutiger]

3 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Makes me think how badly the Avila administration would probably have botched his developmentent. 😉

The first guy who hugged him in the dugout today after his outing was Gabe Ribas... who was hired by Al.

Edited September 10, 2023 by mtutiger

[chasfh]

2 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

The first guy who hugged him in the dugout today after his outing was Gabe Ribas... who was hired by Al.

Beautiful.

[buddha]

3 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

The first guy who hugged him in the dugout today after his outing was Gabe Ribas... who was hired by Al.

would you like to being Al back?

[mtutiger]

8 minutes ago, buddha said:

would you like to being Al back?

No, Al was terrible. But we can acknowledge when he made good decisions? Or even when those decisions worked out, can we not? Just for objectivity's sake???

Edited September 10, 2023 by mtutiger

[buddha]

7 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

No, Al was terrible. But we can acknowledge when he made good decisions? Or even when those decisions worked out, can we not? Just for objectivity's sake???

then stop trolling.  🙂

[mtutiger]

2 minutes ago, buddha said:

then stop trolling.  🙂

I'm not trolling. 

If you are enjoying his success today, you should feel comfortable acknowledging the skepticism last year.

[Tiger337]

43 minutes ago, buddha said:

then stop trolling.  🙂

MTU's got this nice reasonable poster with occasional troll thing going.  That used to be my routine.  

[SoCalTiger]

I was not happy that we were once again trading off players for "lottos" as we nose dived into the standings once again. I also felt Al waited too long until the asset was almost worthless. Today was encouraging for "SGL" and its an organizational win IF he continues. He looked good but it's alas one game against a team with no heart in September. Hope he keeps it up. 

[mtutiger]

49 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

MTU's got this nice reasonable poster with occasional troll thing going.  That used to be my routine.  

I just have a long memory... if he keeps it up, it'll be no different than Kerry Carpenter. Who clearly never stood a chance of making it

[Tiger337]

26 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I just have a long memory... if he keeps it up, it'll be no different than Kerry Carpenter. Who clearly never stood a chance of making it

I think pitchers who are not highly regarded as prospects turn out out to be surprises more often than hitters.  It maybe because pitchers are so fragile, that they are given every chance to succeed.  I have no idea if Long will succeed.  One game means nothing, but the fact that he was given the start shows that he is further along than a lot of other prospects.  

[gehringer_2]

3 hours ago, mtutiger said:

Sure, he should have traded Fulmer a lot earlier. No argument there.

To me the logic is faulty. If Fulmer had been all that, he would have been the first piece of the rebuild, still in his prime when they should have been ready to content again - which would have been about now, so why on earth would you trade him? OTOH, if he already established that he was fragile and had a flat fastball, you weren't going to get the moon for him.

[casimir]

2 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

MTU's got this nice reasonable poster with occasional troll thing going.  That used to be my routine.  

You were good at it, no question.  Then you wrote the mathball book, and you got all of the royalties from that like you signed a 10 year $25M per type deal, and then you lost your drive and your Troll+ index dropped from the 120s to around sports forum average.

In a few years, you’re going to resemble the last seven years of Cabrera.  Some folks here will still want to read your posts and wax poetically about your earlier work.  Others will complain that your posts just don’t have the same effect as in yesteryears.

[gehringer_2]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

I think pitchers who are not highly regarded as prospects turn out out to be surprises more often than hitters.  It maybe because pitchers are so fragile, that they are given every chance to succeed.  I have no idea if Long will succeed.  One game means nothing, but the fact that he was given the start shows that he is further along than a lot of other prospects.  

SGL is one of those guys who, when he is on, make you wonder how he isn't already an all-star, yet whose overall body of work looks pretty mundane.  Like a lot of guys who depend on being able to command an inventory of off-speed pitches, when he is good, he is very good, but consistency remains elusive. Sometime as these guy get older and log more innings, the consistency improves to were there they can have good MLB careers, but for just as many or more it never happens.

[Tiger337]

25 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

SGL is one of those guys who, when he is on, make you wonder how he isn't already an all-star, yet whose overall body of work looks pretty mundane.  Like a lot of guys who depend on being able to command an inventory of off-speed pitches, when he is good, he is very good, but consistency remains elusive. Sometime as these guy get older and log more innings, the consistency improves to were there they can have good MLB careers, but for just as many or more it never happens.

So, he's the the pitcher with an ERA over 5.00 every year, but he he always pitches like Cy Young versus the Tigers?  

[Tiger337]

52 minutes ago, casimir said:

You were good at it, no question.  Then you wrote the mathball book, and you got all of the royalties from that like you signed a 10 year $25M per type deal, and then you lost your drive and your Troll+ index dropped from the 120s to around sports forum average.

In a few years, you’re going to resemble the last seven years of Cabrera.  Some folks here will still want to read your posts and wax poetically about your earlier work.  Others will complain that your posts just don’t have the same effect as in yesteryears.

I think I'm already there.  

[chasfh]

14 hours ago, mtutiger said:

No, Al was terrible. But we can acknowledge when he made good decisions? Or even when those decisions worked out, can we not? Just for objectivity's sake???

FWIW, nobody thought it was a good decision at the time, and same page you called for Al to be replaced basically because of it.