Week Two: Seattle Seahawks (0-1) @ Detroit Lions (1-0)

[MIguy]

If not for the two turnovers that led to quick TD's, the Lions win this easily.  Clean up the mistakes and figure out the pass defense and we'll be fine. 

[TP_Fan]

  On 9/18/2023 at 1:41 AM, MIguy said:

If not for the two turnovers that led to quick TD's, the Lions win this easily.  Clean up the mistakes and figure out the pass defense and we'll be fine. 

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3 years we’ve been hearing about cleaning up the pass defense. 

[sagnam]

The defense is still bad. This is not really debatable. No pass rush at all. It’s not like this is a new problem. This team will always be bad until they can finish when they rush the passer.

[number20]

  On 9/18/2023 at 1:49 AM, sagnam said:

No pass rush at all. It’s not like this is a new problem. This team will always be bad until they can finish when they rush the passer.

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The last time this team was good - like, 11-5 good - they had game wreckers on the DL

[Mr.TaterSalad]

  On 9/18/2023 at 1:45 AM, TP_Fan said:

3 years we’ve been hearing about cleaning up the pass defense. 

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Aaron Glenn's speciality is supposed to be the secondary given that's what he played in the NFL. But even with the secondary being inconsistent and struggling at times, having zero pass rush with no QB pressure is really difficult to overcome. When a QB and offense get 4-5-6+ seconds to let plays develop and receivers get that kind of time to get open it puts the secondary in a tough position. You can only ask the secondary to hold tight coverage for so long. And against a mobile QB who can extend plays in and out of the pocket that makes things harder. The opposing QB doesn't fear our pass rush because Glenn continually rushes only 4, doesn't gets no push from the interior, and doesn't have a talent on the field besides Hutch that represents any serious threat.

[Sports_Freak]

  On 9/18/2023 at 1:37 AM, RedRamage said:

I just rewatched that last drive and it wasn't clock management. They had plenty of time to score but couldn't get the first down. They let like 20 second run off before kicking the FG.

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You have to go back a bit to when the Lions got the ball. They wasted too much time on the first few plays. Didn't seem to show any urgency. 

[Longgone]

  On 9/17/2023 at 8:20 PM, TP_Fan said:

It’s that the lions keep losing the same way. Horrible defense. Poor execution. This was the most same ole lions game of all time. 

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Nope, they played a very good team and played well enough to win, it's disappointing that they didn't, but it's not all bad. They lost the turnover battle, and that was it. 

[sagnam]

They managed the clock fine. They ran out of downs, not time.

[gehringer_2]

  On 9/18/2023 at 11:34 AM, Longgone said:

Nope, they played a very good team and played well enough to win, it's disappointing that they didn't, but it's not all bad. They lost the turnover battle, and that was it. 

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Offensive stats on each side very close to even. You can always use more pass rush (and also having holding called....), but Seattle's overall pass D was no better than the Lions. It came down to Goff making one throw behind an open receiver -or maybe the receiver ran a sloppy route. Either way it was an unforced error and Seattle's D didn't have much to do with it but have the luck to have the D-back, who could not have broken up the play if the throw had been on target,  standing where the ball went. Add in two more losses of possession and you end up short in the end.

But the expectation the Lions would have a top D this season were never realistic. Improved, sure. Middle of the pack - maybe. But you don't go from a pretty terrible D to a great D in one off-season.

Edited September 18, 2023 by gehringer_2

[RedRamage]

  On 9/17/2023 at 8:46 PM, Jason_R said:

Also, can somebody tell me where the hell were all the masks?

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That's the real reason we lost right there!

(I did see at least two fans with masks on.)

[Motor City Sonics]

  On 9/18/2023 at 12:01 PM, RedRamage said:

That's the real reason we lost right there!

(I did see at least two fans with masks on.)

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I think Fox made an effort to not show that.   

[Motor City Sonics]

Well, i'ts the NFL.  Who is 2-0? 

Miami & Baltimore  is it in the AFC

The NFC

Dallas, Philly, Washington, Atlanta, Tampa Bay & San Francisco   with New Orleans probably getting there tonight.  

I am pretty sure the Lions are better than Tampa, Atlanta, Washington and New Orleans

 

Gotta clean up that defense and figure out how to cover tight ends.     Looks like Jerry Jacobs is the whipping boy.   Can't wait for Moseley to get back.

 

I'll stick by what I said earlier.  This loss, in the long run, might be good.  Bring 'em back down to earth and make them prove how good they are.    Of course they were buying into the hype, they're human.   

 

 

[chasfh]

  On 9/18/2023 at 12:14 PM, Motor City Sonics said:

I think Fox made an effort to not show that.   

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Maybe if they were red instead … 😉

[chasfh]

  On 9/18/2023 at 1:37 AM, RedRamage said:

I just rewatched that last drive and it wasn't clock management. They had plenty of time to score but couldn't get the first down. They let like 20 second run off before kicking the FG.

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This reads to me as though clock management was at least some of it.

[RedRamage]

  On 9/18/2023 at 12:28 PM, chasfh said:

This reads to me as though clock management was at least some of it.

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I didn't get that feeling at all. They had time and time outs left. They ran out of downs. I said they let time run because they wanted the FG try to be the last play of the game. Ideally I would have liked to see more than 23 seconds left, but they had time outs and would have been inside the red zone if they had gotten a First Down.  That would have been enough time to score.

[Jason_R]

  On 9/18/2023 at 12:01 PM, RedRamage said:

That's the real reason we lost right there!

(I did see at least two fans with masks on.)

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Honestly, I expected the stadium to be 130 decibels and for Seattle to get flustered early. Instead they marched down the field and scored from the opening kickoff. Then they scored from our opening kickoff in the second half. 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Jason_R

[RedRamage]

  On 9/18/2023 at 1:11 PM, Jason_R said:

Honestly, I expected the stadium to be 130 decibels and for Seattle to get flustered early. Instead they marched down the field and scored from the opening kickoff. Then they scored from our opening kickoff in the second half. 

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I'm nitpicking and playing also playing with hindsight, but I kinda wondered if it might not have been better to start off with the ball instead of giving it to Seattle. Obviously I don't think we expected the defense to be that poor, but it might have been nice to march down the field and get a TD ourselves to start the game and set the pace.

(Obviously there's also a chance we go 3-and-out, get the crowd grumbling, and then watch Seattle score AND get the ball to start the second half... in which case I'd be on here complaining that they should have kicked off to start...)

[Jason_R]

  On 9/18/2023 at 1:15 PM, RedRamage said:

I'm nitpicking and playing also playing with hindsight, but I kinda wondered if it might not have been better to start off with the ball instead of giving it to Seattle. Obviously I don't think we expected the defense to be that poor, but it might have been nice to march down the field and get a TD ourselves to start the game and set the pace.

(Obviously there's also a chance we go 3-and-out, get the crowd grumbling, and then watch Seattle score AND get the ball to start the second half... in which case I'd be on here complaining that they should have kicked off to start...)

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Also, in retrospect, Montgomery shouldn’t have fumbled the first snap of the second half. 😂

[TP_Fan]

Anyone thinking the defense has improved is kidding themselves.  This will be another season of needing to outscore the opponent.  And absolutely can’t have any mistakes. The defense can’t get off the field and there is no interior pass rush threat outside of Hutchinson who is being double and triple teamed because no one else can get pressure.

The division sucks so there will be a good opportunity to win it, but the scheme is so bad the lions will be fighting it all year.  

[RedRamage]

  On 9/18/2023 at 1:24 PM, TP_Fan said:

Anyone thinking the defense has improved is kidding themselves.  This will be another season of needing to outscore the opponent.  And absolutely can’t have any mistakes. The defense can’t get off the field and there is no interior pass rush threat outside of Hutchinson who is being double and triple teamed because no one else can get pressure.

The division sucks so there will be a good opportunity to win it, but the scheme is so bad the lions will be fighting it all year.  

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In 2022, the defense absolutely improved over the season. That's objectively true. That doesn't mean the defense was good or great by the end of the year, but it was improved.

In 2023 we have two samples:
Sample 1: They held the defending SB champs to 316 yards. They had a key take away that provided 1/3 of the scoring for the team. They pressured the QB constantly. Yes they also got "lucky" with the drops and without having to face Kelce, but they also got "unlucky" with the OL in illegal formations and false starting constantly.

Sample 2: They allowed 393 (some of which came in overtime). They were working on a short field at times, but hardly got any pressure on the QB, allowed WAY too many 3rd downs to convert and couldn't seem to cover receivers. And this while going up against a very depleted Seahawks OL.

So, in 2023, the question is which game is more like the real defense? Time will tell.

It honestly felt like to me that the defense just expected to be good against Seattle. They just expected that Smith would be pressured all the time and so didn't have to do much game planning. Now, this is just an uneducated fan's opinion, so take it for what it's worth.

 

[NYLion]

  On 9/18/2023 at 11:12 AM, Sports_Freak said:

You have to go back a bit to when the Lions got the ball. They wasted too much time on the first few plays. Didn't seem to show any urgency. 

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Campbell was playing for the tie which was especially odd because he was unnecessarily aggressive on multiple occasions during the game and should have been more aggressive on the final possession. I didn't understand it at all at the time especially with the way the Lions offense was moving the ball.

I didn't have a problem with him kicking the FG on 4th down, it was more of the conservative playcalling and clock bleeding earlier in the possession that I didn't get.

Edited September 18, 2023 by NYLion

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Ian Rapoport X'ed out that James Houston is out 6-8 weeks with a fractured ankle. Our already thin, non-existent pass rush, with Josh Paschal out, just got dinged up even more.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Mr.TaterSalad

[RandyMarsh]

One more thing I will say about yesterday is that it sucks that we lost but I did like how the team and Goff responded after the devastating pick 6.

I feel like in the past we would've just folded after that but instead Goff responded with a perfect drive and then the defense played its best series of the game. 

Too bad it was all for naught but still I do think them bouncing back like that instead of just laying over and dying should be noted. 

[MichiganCardinal]

  On 9/18/2023 at 2:00 PM, RandyMarsh said:

One more thing I will say about yesterday is that it sucks that we lost but I did like how the team and Goff responded after the devastating pick 6.

I feel like in the past we would've just folded after that but instead Goff responded with a perfect drive and then the defense played its best series of the game. 

Too bad it was all for naught but still I do think them bouncing back like that instead of just laying over and dying should be noted. 

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The definitely persevered. I think they would have won if they won the toss.

[CMRivdogs]

Re: the interception.

There is some thought the ball may have been tipped. I'm not seeing it, but it does seem to move a bit at the last second. If Gibbs had been about a half second slower....

https://x.com/DetroitOnLion/status/1703589179366441257?s=20