Week Four: Detroit Lions (2-1) @ Green Bay Packers (2-1)

[Mr.TaterSalad]

10 hours ago, holygoat said:

The Lions didn't just walk into Lambeau and win, they ripped the soul out of the Packers. In retrospect, that 3rd quarter reminds me of the SOL Lions making a little run after going down big before the other team wakes up and reasserts their dominance. Just a great, great performance.

The SOL teams of the past would have folded in that 3rd quarter and let Rodgers or Farve or Matt Flynn march right down the field and make a comeback. The SOL teams of the past would have made costly, undisciplined penalties that would have extended drives. The SOL teams of the past would have made a coaching mistake that cost them the game. One thing Dan Campbell has turned these guys into, that SOL teams of seasons past were not, was finishers. You think about the Lions teams that have blown it against Green Bay or Chicago or whomever and could never close it out. This team rebounded after the 3rd quarter and finished them off.

[sagnam]

4 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

The SOL teams of the past would have folded in that 3rd quarter and let Rodgers or Farve or Matt Flynn march right down the field and make a comeback. The SOL teams of the past would have made costly, undisciplined penalties that would have extended drives. The SOL teams of the past would have made a coaching mistake that cost them the game. One thing Dan Campbell has turned these guys into, that SOL teams of seasons past were not, was finishers. You think about the Lions teams that have blown it against Green Bay or Chicago or whomever and could never close it out. This team rebounded after the 3rd quarter and finished them off.

They were getting called for non-existent penalties in the 3rd quarter. The PI and unnecessary roughness on that TD drive were terrible. Add in Hutch’s hands to the face and letting the snap go after time expired. The refs had a rough 2nd half.

[lordstanley]

A good clip of the Let’s Go Lions chant. 
 

 

[Shinzaki]

Gibbs was a little off last night...seemed like he had a problem keeping on his feet.  Slipped a time or two

Really like that LaPorta pick now...he's been a beast at TE

[MichiganCardinal]

42 minutes ago, NYLion said:

Just reading through the thread now.... so the Lions win 34-20, in Lambeau field, and all I see is TP complaining about Lions coaches lol. My god man, if you can't enjoy a double digit win in Lambeau then what's the point of being a fan.

He'll enjoy it today. Back in 2021 me and TP got into a little bit in a GDT when we were the ones getting our asses kicked. Had a good DM conversation afterwards.

All GDTs should come with the disclaimer that opinions expressed in the GDT may not be representative of one's true thoughts lol. They are designed for snap reactions and can devolve quickly into a frenzy.

[Sports_Freak]

11 hours ago, MichiganCardinal said:

For your reading enjoyment:

Green Bay Message Board #1

Green Bay Message Board #2

Green Bay Message Board #3

Two things after reading many boffins these Packer fans posts. 

1. The Packer fans have really bad attitudes. Very bad sports. 

2. There are quite a few "fans" of the Packers who know very little about football. Bandwagon fans jumping off the train straight into the void....

[Sports_Freak]

25 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

Gibbs was a little off last night...seemed like he had a problem keeping on his feet.  Slipped a time or two

Really like that LaPorta pick now...he's been a beast at TE

Agreed. And on a side note, I benched Montgomery on my FF team because of injury concerns. I started Gibbs. Monty got 34.1 points on my bench. Gibbs got me 9.1 points. Ugh....and I'm fine with a Lions win. The heck with my FF team. 😃

[MichiganCardinal]

2 minutes ago, Sports_Freak said:

Two things after reading many boffins these Packer fans posts. 

1. The Packer fans have really bad attitudes. Very bad sports. 

2. There are quite a few "fans" of the Packers who know very little about football. Bandwagon fans jumping off the train straight into the void....

I can’t believe I’m going to do a tiny defense of Packers fans here, what are you making me do.

But I’m sure if some random fanbase read one of the MTS/MTF game day threads, particularly after a loss, they would think we are terrible sports and just a bunch of morans. I tend to think our board is pretty intelligent, but (along what I just said above about GDTs) the game day thread isn’t really a good microcosm of the fan base. It’s still fun to read that though after a win. I do think that the Packers have a lot of fair weather casual football fans.

Now with that out of the way, the Packers suck, Packers fans suck, let’s put up 50 on Thanksgiving. That feels better.

[TP_Fan]

1 hour ago, NYLion said:

Just reading through the thread now.... so the Lions win 34-20, in Lambeau field, and all I see is TP complaining about Lions coaches lol. My god man, if you can't enjoy a double digit win in Lambeau then what's the point of being a fan.

I enjoyed the heck out of beating a bad team.  I had a really good time. And don’t be dramatic. It was only one coach. 

[TP_Fan]

55 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

He'll enjoy it today. Back in 2021 me and TP got into a little bit in a GDT when we were the ones getting our asses kicked. Had a good DM conversation afterwards.

All GDTs should come with the disclaimer that opinions expressed in the GDT may not be representative of one's true thoughts lol. They are designed for snap reactions and can devolve quickly into a frenzy.

This guy gets it. I watch lions games alone in Minnesota.  This is where I hang out.  

[Mr.TaterSalad]

Don't we all agree though that the HB dives and draw plays on second down for a handful of yards, 2-3 per carry, gets predictable and annoying at times? It seems we have this wide open, unpredictable, creative offense 75% of the time. Then 2nd down rolls around and sometimes, but not always, we end up with a humdrum, predictable handoff to a RB for little to no gain. If we can call and predict the next play on 2nd down from our couches, you know opposing DC's and teams are reading it on the field.

Sometimes it feels like we are running the ball out of obligation on 2nd down. Feeling like we are surrendering 2nd down at times. Yes, clearly, there are multiple instances this season and last that you can point to under Ben Johnson were we had big gains on 2nd down. Yes, clearly, Ben Johnson is lightyears ahead of any OC we've had in recent memory from Linehan to Lombardi to JBC to Bevell. I'd like to see the Lions and Ben Johnson's stats on 2nd down compared to other teams. How efficient are we on 2nd downs converting firsts. Yards per play we get on 2nd down. Run vs. pass play call on 2nd down, etc. Maybe it isn't as bad as some of us think and we're making a mountain out of a molehill.

I think it is perfectly fair to recognize and appreciate that Ben Johnson has turned Jared Goff and this offense around and made us a dynamic offensive team as a whole. Doing that, while recognizing that there are play calls and instances where we feel he could change things up or do things differently. We don't have to be jumping off a cliff or blasting Ben Johnson out of a cannon with an overaction. However, we can still look at individual play calling instances or a perceived pattern of play calling, like on 2nd down, analyze, discuss, and criticize it.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Mr.TaterSalad

[romad1]

The best part of the game was the 2 extra minutes squeezed out of the game at the end after the penalty on the FG attempt.  I knew the Lions would milk it with runs and if they scored more than a FB, all gravy. 

[CMRivdogs]

18 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Don't we all agree though that the HB dives and draw plays on second down for a handful of yards, 2-3 per carry, gets predictable and annoying at times? It seems we have this wide open, unpredictable, creative offense 75% of the time. Then 2nd down rolls around and sometimes, but not always, we end up with a humdrum, predictable handoff to a RB for little to no gain. If we can call and predict the next play on 2nd down from our couches, you know opposing DC's and teams are reading it on the field.

Sometimes it feels like we are running the ball out of obligation on 2nd down. Feeling like we are surrendering 2nd down at times. Yes, clearly, there are multiple instances this season and last that you can point to under Ben Johnson were we had big gains on 2nd down. Yes, clearly, Ben Johnson is lightyears ahead of any OC we've had in recent memory from Linehan to Lombardi to JBC to Bevell. I'd like to see the Lions and Ben Johnson's stats on 2nd down compared to other teams. How efficient are we on 2nd downs converting firsts. Yards per play we get on 2nd down. Run vs. pass play call on 2nd down, etc. Maybe it isn't as bad as some of us think and we're making a mountain out of a molehill.

I think it is perfectly fair to recognize and appreciate that Ben Johnson has turned Jared Goff and this offense around and made us a dynamic offensive team as a whole. Doing that, while recognizing that there are play calls and instances where we feel he could change things up or do things differently. We don't have to be jumping off a cliff or blasting Ben Johnson out of a cannon with an overaction. However, we can still look at individual play calling instances or a perceived pattern of play calling, like on 2nd down, analyze, discuss, and criticize it.

https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/nfl-stats/offense/efficiency/run-pass-success-rate-2021/?Yds Away from TD=1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,90,91,92,93,94,95,96,97,98,99&Play Type and SuccessPlay=RUSH 0,RUSH 1&Down=2&Offense=ARI,ARZ,ATL,BAL,BLT,BUF,CAR,CHI,CIN,CLE,CLV,DAL,DEN,DET,GB,HOU,HST,IND,JAC,JAX,KC,LA,LAC,LV,MIA,MIN,NE,NO,NYG,NYJ,OAK,PHI,PIT,SD,SEA,SF,TB,TEN,WAS&Quarter=1,2,3,4,5&Season=2021&Week=1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21&Yds to Go=1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,43,44&Field Zone=1,2,3,4,5
 

You can bend the interpretation any way you want, here's a breakdown. They're a more successful on the pas than the run and do run it more often. 42% successful play rate on the run vs 49 on the pass

 

[NYLion]

1 hour ago, MichiganCardinal said:

He'll enjoy it today. Back in 2021 me and TP got into a little bit in a GDT when we were the ones getting our asses kicked. Had a good DM conversation afterwards.

All GDTs should come with the disclaimer that opinions expressed in the GDT may not be representative of one's true thoughts lol. They are designed for snap reactions and can devolve quickly into a frenzy.

It's funny how that works. I've known a few posters on other boards that were extreme fanboys like TP and their persona was a lot different away from the message board so I'm sure that applies to TP too but man is it a chore to read his GDT posts haha and, make no mistake, his snap reactions are next NEXT level compared to the rest of the world.

Me personally? Last night was one of the most enjoyable experiences I ever had as a Lions fan even through the wobbles in the second half. The only thing that was missing was sharing this with a bunch of other Lions fans in person which is kind of hard to do here in NY, most of my buddies are Giants saps.

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by NYLion

[lordstanley]

1 hour ago, Sports_Freak said:

Two things after reading many boffins these Packer fans posts. 

1. The Packer fans have really bad attitudes. Very bad sports. 

2. There are quite a few "fans" of the Packers who know very little about football. Bandwagon fans jumping off the train straight into the void....

There are some goodies in those. Like this:

“So now the Lions are the new Packers, the Bears are the new Lions, the Vikings are the new Bears and the Packers are the new Vikings?"

 

[NYLion]

28 minutes ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Don't we all agree though that the HB dives and draw plays on second down for a handful of yards, 2-3 per carry, gets predictable and annoying at times? It seems we have this wide open, unpredictable, creative offense 75% of the time. Then 2nd down rolls around and sometimes, but not always, we end up with a humdrum, predictable handoff to a RB for little to no gain. If we can call and predict the next play on 2nd down from our couches, you know opposing DC's and teams are reading it on the field.

Sometimes it feels like we are running the ball out of obligation on 2nd down. Feeling like we are surrendering 2nd down at times. Yes, clearly, there are multiple instances this season and last that you can point to under Ben Johnson were we had big gains on 2nd down. Yes, clearly, Ben Johnson is lightyears ahead of any OC we've had in recent memory from Linehan to Lombardi to JBC to Bevell. I'd like to see the Lions and Ben Johnson's stats on 2nd down compared to other teams. How efficient are we on 2nd downs converting firsts. Yards per play we get on 2nd down. Run vs. pass play call on 2nd down, etc. Maybe it isn't as bad as some of us think and we're making a mountain out of a molehill.

I think it is perfectly fair to recognize and appreciate that Ben Johnson has turned Jared Goff and this offense around and made us a dynamic offensive team as a whole. Doing that, while recognizing that there are play calls and instances where we feel he could change things up or do things differently. We don't have to be jumping off a cliff or blasting Ben Johnson out of a cannon with an overaction. However, we can still look at individual play calling instances or a perceived pattern of play calling, like on 2nd down, analyze, discuss, and criticize it.

I too was a bit frustrated with some of his calls especially when they had the big lead and got too conservative at times then had Goff passing on that final drive (before the kneel down drive) but no need to dwell on it, I'm sure Chiefs fans have issues with Reid's playcalling at times as well (going for it on 4th down and forever against the Lions for instance) so nobody is perfect. Too each their own though, I'm thoroughly enjoying the ride after 3 decades of suffering.

[MichiganCardinal]

I think some of the play-calling in the second half yesterday was intentionally ultra-conservative. We jumped out to such a lead, and our defense was doing such a dominating job, that I think they took a calculated risk that we would in all likelihood win the game if we didn't suffer any catastrophic turnovers. Just run the ball up the gut, we were gashing them on it anyway.

It reminds me a little of Michigan's offense against everybody but Ohio State. Why go to page 20 of the playbook if you can beat them on page 2?

[Tigeraholic1]

9 minutes ago, MichiganCardinal said:

I think some of the play-calling in the second half yesterday was intentionally ultra-conservative. We jumped out to such a lead, and our defense was doing such a dominating job, that I think they took a calculated risk that we would in all likelihood win the game if we didn't suffer any catastrophic turnovers. Just run the ball up the gut, we were gashing them on it anyway.

It reminds me a little of Michigan's offense against everybody but Ohio State. Why go to page 20 of the playbook if you can beat them on page 2?

Thats what I think too. I also think the plan would have been to throttle it up if lead got too tight. Ball posession time: Det 37:58 GB 22:02 

[RandyMarsh]

Currently SNF in week 10 is the Jets vs. Raiders, I know those two teams have good fanbases but I wouldn't be surprised if it still gets flexed out. Looking at the other games that week and there's a couple good options but if the Lions are still playing well and being talked  like they currently are I could see the Lions/Chargers getting flexed to primetime if the Chargers can get their **** together

Edited September 29, 2023 by RandyMarsh

[MichiganCardinal]

22 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said:

Currently SNF in week 10 is the Jets vs. Raiders, I know those two teams have good fanbases but I wouldn't be surprised if it still gets flexed out. Looking at the other games that week and there's a couple good options but if the Lions are still playing well and being talked  like they currently are I could see the Lions/Chargers getting flexed to primetime if the Chargers can get their **** together

If they fall in love with the Lions, Week 11 home against the Bears is an option too. SNF that week is currently Vikings @ Broncos, which is shaping to be an ugly matchup. The only other possibly appealing flex candidate I see that week is Steelers @ Browns.

[number20]

2 hours ago, Mr.TaterSalad said:

Don't we all agree though that the HB dives and draw plays on second down for a handful of yards, 2-3 per carry, gets predictable and annoying at times? It seems we have this wide open, unpredictable, creative offense 75% of the time. Then 2nd down rolls around and sometimes, but not always, we end up with a humdrum, predictable handoff to a RB for little to no gain. If we can call and predict the next play on 2nd down from our couches, you know opposing DC's and teams are reading it on the field.

Sometimes it feels like we are running the ball out of obligation on 2nd down. Feeling like we are surrendering 2nd down at times. Yes, clearly, there are multiple instances this season and last that you can point to under Ben Johnson were we had big gains on 2nd down. Yes, clearly, Ben Johnson is lightyears ahead of any OC we've had in recent memory from Linehan to Lombardi to JBC to Bevell. I'd like to see the Lions and Ben Johnson's stats on 2nd down compared to other teams. How efficient are we on 2nd downs converting firsts. Yards per play we get on 2nd down. Run vs. pass play call on 2nd down, etc. Maybe it isn't as bad as some of us think and we're making a mountain out of a molehill.

I think it is perfectly fair to recognize and appreciate that Ben Johnson has turned Jared Goff and this offense around and made us a dynamic offensive team as a whole. Doing that, while recognizing that there are play calls and instances where we feel he could change things up or do things differently. We don't have to be jumping off a cliff or blasting Ben Johnson out of a cannon with an overaction. However, we can still look at individual play calling instances or a perceived pattern of play calling, like on 2nd down, analyze, discuss, and criticize it.

It also appears whenever Johnson brings Gibbs off the sideline and into the backfield... *everyone* knows he's getting the ball. With Monty there's usually the threat of play action, but with Gibbs the opposing D always seems to key on him and he ends up getting gang tackled

 

 

[MichiganCardinal]

I am interested to see what the offense will look like when Jamo comes back. Intuitively, it feels like he and Gibbs together could be a lethal combination. Either one of them in space has the ability to take it to the house (even though we haven't seen it yet), and defenses can't stifle both threats at once.

[RandyMarsh]

 

[TP_Fan]

Really good news on Branch. Could probably get away with missing him against the panthers too.  That’d be 17 days to let the ankle rest. 

[TP_Fan]

Am I seeing this right, Jameson Williams is eligible next week?