09/26/2023 6:40 pm EDT Kansas City Royals vs Detroit Tigers

[SoCalTiger]

2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

A mostly replaceable group. Diaz has done OK. I don't see any of the bats being significant contributors to a winning team. McKinstry made a contribution early this season this season but I really don't care for guys that collapse in the second half, argues that pitchers have them figured out so their future is dim.

And when McKinstry did get on base it seemed he was often running into outs....The Dodgers aren't stupid.

[SoCalTiger]

4 hours ago, Edman85 said:

None of those.

Flores, Dingler, and maybe Montero.

From my sheet... Minor league free agent eligible. If re-signed to a minor league deal, they are Rule 5 eligible.

 

MILB FA Eligible

Luis Acosta

Eliezer Alfonzo

Elvis Alvarado

Jose Alvarez

Braden Bristo

Esney Chacon

Gregoris Chalas

Sam Clay

Angel De Jesus

Bryan Encarnacion

Mario Feliciano

Rony Garcia

Max Green

Sean Guenther

Wilkel Hernandez

Eiker Huizi

Marco Jimenez

Zach Logue

Eric Mendez

Keider Montero

Henry Montilla

Tim Naughton

Quincy Nieporte

Michael Papierski

Cleiverth Perez

DJ Peters

Julio Rodriguez

Bryan Sammons

Yosber Sanchez

Luis Santana

Nick Solak

Cristhian Tortosa

Luis Watter

Aneurys Zabala

And Rule 5 eligible:

 

Rule 5 Eligible

Yeremi Bastardo

Lazaro Benitez

Austin Bergner

Michael Bienlien

Jorge Boyer

Jaison Brete

Danny Cabrera

Blair Calvo

Roberto Campos

Angel Cruz

Jesus Cruz

Trei Cruz

Daneurys De la Cruz

Jose De La Cruz

Raudy De Los Santos

Daniele Di Monte

Jose Diaz

Dillon Dingler

Geury Estevez

Wilmer Fenelon

Wilmer Flores

Dario Gardea

Alvaro Gonzalez

Layne Henderson

Martin Herrera

Zack Hess

Jake Higginbotham

Jake Holton

Ricardo Hurtado

Edgardo Ibarra

Corey Joyce

Abraham Landaeta

Iverson Leonardo

Abelaldo Lopez

Jesus Machado

Andrew Magno

Dany Martinez

Chris Mauloni

Carlos Mendoza

Williander Moreno

Andrew Navigato

Hendry Nunez

Jack O'Loughlin

Jose Ochoa

Carlos Pena

Erick Pinales

Jose Reina

Adinso Reyes

Angel Reyes

Jose Rivas

Erick Rodriguez

Moises Rodriguez

Samuel Rojas

Newremberg Rondon

Gabriel Sequeira

Manuel Sequera

Rolando Sirit

Ted Stuka

Sergio Tapia

Bryce Tassin

Eduardo Valencia

John Valente

Moises Valero

Matt Walker

Adam Wolf

Gage Workman

 

What do you think about Trei Cruz ? Worth protecting or not ?

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, SoCalTiger said:

What do you think about Trei Cruz ? Worth protecting or not ?

And Roberto Campos... although he's even further away...

But Cruz and Workman seemed to make some minor improvements this year...

[casimir]

4 hours ago, chasfh said:

I think both he and McKinstry might return for the very reason so many fans hate: they have the flexibility to play multiple positions. I think that's important for rebuilding teams that don't have a surplus of everyday players, but that still needs to try to win games in the meantime. I do think once we get solid everyday guys to play either second or third, one of them may be released. Maybe that's next year, maybe that's 2025.

Fun fact: Ibanez and McKinstry rank 3-4 along Tigers position players this year in WAR, behind only Carpenter and Greene, and ahead of Tork, Baez, Jake, and everyone else.

Do fans really hate them for that?  I would think Tiger fans hate the fact that there aren't enough everyday players and guys like Ibanez and McKinstry who should be on the bench are forced into more regular duty than their skills merit.

[oblong]

McKinstry and Vierling are the same person to me.

 

[chasfh]

18 minutes ago, casimir said:

Do fans really hate them for that?  I would think Tiger fans hate the fact that there aren't enough everyday players and guys like Ibanez and McKinstry who should be on the bench are forced into more regular duty than their skills merit.

I see a lot of criticism of the Smartest Guy in the Room moving players around from position to position on a game to game basis. I didn’t say fans hated the person for that, and maybe it doesn’t even reflect actual hatred for the tactic itself, but it does suggest to me they believe the Guy should be doing something different than that with the players he has. 

[casimir]

15 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I see a lot of criticism of the Smartest Guy in the Room moving players around from position to position on a game to game basis. I didn’t say fans hated the person for that, and maybe it doesn’t even reflect actual hatred for the tactic itself, but it does suggest to me they believe the Guy should be doing something different than that with the players he has. 

I know I've been critical of pitching decisions, mostly pulling relievers after quick innings.  But that's a generic peeve that I have of how the game is played these days.

I understand what he's doing with the platooning and trying to play to matchups.  I'm sure I've disagreed with some position player moves along the way.  But, again, I think he's trying to gain whatever edge he can wherever he can to try to win a ballgame.  I'd say the Maton at 3B thing bugs me the most.  Hinch has forgotten more baseball than I will ever know, but Maton, in my completely amateur opinion, looks like a guy that has more skill set with range rather than reaction.  It just seems like he doesn't have that quick twitch that's needed at 3B.  McKinstry appeared to be a better 3B option.  And for quite a while, those two were in the lineup together vs RHPs, with Maton at 3B and McKinstry at 2B.

[gehringer_2]

26 minutes ago, casimir said:

I know I've been critical of pitching decisions, mostly pulling relievers after quick innings.  But that's a generic peeve that I have of how the game is played these days.

I understand what he's doing with the platooning and trying to play to matchups.  I'm sure I've disagreed with some position player moves along the way.  But, again, I think he's trying to gain whatever edge he can wherever he can to try to win a ballgame.  I'd say the Maton at 3B thing bugs me the most.  Hinch has forgotten more baseball than I will ever know, but Maton, in my completely amateur opinion, looks like a guy that has more skill set with range rather than reaction.  It just seems like he doesn't have that quick twitch that's needed at 3B.  McKinstry appeared to be a better 3B option.  And for quite a while, those two were in the lineup together vs RHPs, with Maton at 3B and McKinstry at 2B.

I have to agree that the handling of third over the last couple of years has defied explanation. It's extremely hard to understand the criteria they are using give guys innings there. Especially considering that the Twins and Rays have gotten a decent returns from Willi Castro and Isaac Paredes playing 3d and the Tigers never gave either a serious look there. Seems they have trouble recognizing a decent 3b even when they have one.

Edited September 28, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Tenacious D]

1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said:

And Roberto Campos... although he's even further away...

But Cruz and Workman seemed to make some minor improvements this year...

The only reason to add a player to the 40 man is if you think another team will select them and keep them in their ML roster all season.  Very little risk of that happening with either Cruz or Workman. And if another team decides to do that, you let them.

[chasfh]

2 hours ago, casimir said:

I know I've been critical of pitching decisions, mostly pulling relievers after quick innings.  But that's a generic peeve that I have of how the game is played these days.

I understand what he's doing with the platooning and trying to play to matchups.  I'm sure I've disagreed with some position player moves along the way.  But, again, I think he's trying to gain whatever edge he can wherever he can to try to win a ballgame.  I'd say the Maton at 3B thing bugs me the most.  Hinch has forgotten more baseball than I will ever know, but Maton, in my completely amateur opinion, looks like a guy that has more skill set with range rather than reaction.  It just seems like he doesn't have that quick twitch that's needed at 3B.  McKinstry appeared to be a better 3B option.  And for quite a while, those two were in the lineup together vs RHPs, with Maton at 3B and McKinstry at 2B.

I wonder whether the reason Hinch ran Maton out there for so long night have been that Maton was showing flashes of "getting it", maybe during games or drills or something, and he was getting every chance to finally make it click until it became apparent that he just wasn't, at least not this year he wasn't. Hitting .173 sure didn't help, either. The one thing Maton can do is work counts and draw walks, but no one is going to make a career on a skill set with that in the center of it.

He hasn't played much third since going to Toledo, and I'm wondering what they see as his future here, if any. I think they'll give him one more hack next spring, if they can't package him in some trade. I'd be a little surprised if they just cut bait on him.

[RandyMarsh]

1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

The only reason to add a player to the 40 man is if you think another team will select them and keep them in their ML roster all season.  Very little risk of that happening with either Cruz or Workman. And if another team decides to do that, you let them.

Yeah good point, I always forget about that stipulation. In that case then if Campos is eligible then we don't have to worry about protecting him since he's nowhere near ready for the majors. 

[casimir]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

I wonder whether the reason Hinch ran Maton out there for so long night have been that Maton was showing flashes of "getting it", maybe during games or drills or something, and he was getting every chance to finally make it click until it became apparent that he just wasn't, at least not this year he wasn't. Hitting .173 sure didn't help, either. The one thing Maton can do is work counts and draw walks, but no one is going to make a career on a skill set with that in the center of it.

He hasn't played much third since going to Toledo, and I'm wondering what they see as his future here, if any. I think they'll give him one more hack next spring, if they can't package him in some trade. I'd be a little surprised if they just cut bait on him.

I think there’s some bad luck in that .173.  BABIP wasn’t his friend.  Fly ball rate went up significantly and line drive rate tanked.  Those numbers were trash, and oh by the way, he altered his hands at the plate halfway through the season.  Maybe the offense carried over to defense, I think those things happen sometimes.

I don’t know what his future holds.  We can all agree it was a frustrating season for him.  I wouldn’t run him off and I wouldn’t assume he’s an option for next season.  Ideally the Tigers add an everyday player or two which reduces the platooning a bit.  What are we looking at, probably 2 Cs, 5 OFs, and 6 IFs?  And we know some LF those spots will overlap a bit, which is fine.

Baez and Torkleson are 2 spots.  Hopefully they bring in a legit MLB player for one of 2B or 3B.  So, what, 2 or 3 backup/platoon IFs?  Short, Ibanez, McKinstry, Maton, Lipcius, and Kreidler are the 40 man incumbents.  Do we set up a conference call with Harris and Greenberg or do we have a heal or hurt thread and submit the results to them?

[chasfh]

13 hours ago, casimir said:

I think there’s some bad luck in that .173.  BABIP wasn’t his friend.  Fly ball rate went up significantly and line drive rate tanked.  Those numbers were trash, and oh by the way, he altered his hands at the plate halfway through the season.  Maybe the offense carried over to defense, I think those things happen sometimes.

I don’t know what his future holds.  We can all agree it was a frustrating season for him.  I wouldn’t run him off and I wouldn’t assume he’s an option for next season.  Ideally the Tigers add an everyday player or two which reduces the platooning a bit.  What are we looking at, probably 2 Cs, 5 OFs, and 6 IFs?  And we know some LF those spots will overlap a bit, which is fine.

Baez and Torkleson are 2 spots.  Hopefully they bring in a legit MLB player for one of 2B or 3B.  So, what, 2 or 3 backup/platoon IFs?  Short, Ibanez, McKinstry, Maton, Lipcius, and Kreidler are the 40 man incumbents.  Do we set up a conference call with Harris and Greenberg or do we have a heal or hurt thread and submit the results to them?

Been a long time since I thought of heal or hurt. Thanks for the memory.