1984Echoes Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 1 hour ago, casimir said: Why should it be assumed that what occurred under a different owner & GM/president would occur again now with the current owner & president? Guessing is not assuming. Why are you mischaracterizing what I posted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Toddwert said: not what you said and no one who wants them to spend said to throw money around like a drunken sailor Throwing good money after CRAP players is not different than a drunken sailor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 51 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: probably the best bet if you don't want to lose your money. 😉 I's also assume they aren't going to do anything to block Keith. If there is anyone in the system that is the real deal it's likely him. Which means if there is any opportunity it's at Catcher or Outfield. Pretty much limited to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Throwing good money after CRAP players is not different than a drunken sailor. Hate to break it to you this roster is full of crap players Edited October 11, 2023 by Toddwert 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 Every roster in MLB has crap players. No one has a roster of 26 All-Stars. The Tigers are going to add multiple good players this offseason and next year to replace a lot of their current crap players. I still don't get your angst over not spending stupid money on more crap players. Or replacing cheap crap players with expensive crap players. I have no interest whatsoever in your improvement plans. Which won't actually improve the team. I am however interested in my OWN plans to improve the team, which are: spend money intelligently on top-shelf players who make a difference, not on more crappy players. And make a strategic trade or two if the opportunity presents itself. If we're talking offense, FA's suck. The only player on offense worth looking at as a FA is Lee Hung-soo out of Korea. That's it. But the right trade could work nicely. I'm looking at Manning to the Dodgers (reprising the deadline trade if both teams can make that work somehow; and depending on the return...); and I'm looking at Tatis or Soto (I prefer Tatis) if Harris can make a trade like that work. Other than that: another year of patience will be required to see what Malloy, Keith, Jung, Dingler, Bigbie and Wenceel can provide next year. Or not. And make adjustments in the 2024 offseason, as needed. That is 1000 times smarter than spending stupid money on crappy players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 2 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Every roster in MLB has crap players. No one has a roster of 26 All-Stars. The Tigers are going to add multiple good players this offseason and next year to replace a lot of their current crap players. I still don't get your angst over not spending stupid money on more crap players. Or replacing cheap crap players with expensive crap players. I have no interest whatsoever in your improvement plans. Which won't actually improve the team. I am however interested in my OWN plans to improve the team, which are: spend money intelligently on top-shelf players who make a difference, not on more crappy players. And make a strategic trade or two if the opportunity presents itself. If we're talking offense, FA's suck. The only player on offense worth looking at as a FA is Lee Hung-soo out of Korea. That's it. But the right trade could work nicely. I'm looking at Manning to the Dodgers (reprising the deadline trade if both teams can make that work somehow; and depending on the return...); and I'm looking at Tatis or Soto (I prefer Tatis) if Harris can make a trade like that work. Other than that: another year of patience will be required to see what Malloy, Keith, Jung, Dingler, Bigbie and Wenceel can provide next year. Or not. And make adjustments in the 2024 offseason, as needed. That is 1000 times smarter than spending stupid money on crappy players. did I ever say spend money on worst players then we have now?........ we can get better players then we currently have thats what i want ... I dont want a roster full of 4A crap because Harris is afraid to spent money.... I dont think anyone wants them to spend 200 Million dollars on crap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 (edited) Malloy, Keith, Jung, Dingler, Bigbie and Wenceel are better players than what we have now. OH, and they'll be playing for Detroit next year. Already making our roster significantly better. Even MATON is a better choice than this year's crop of FA's. And spending money on older players is no guarantee they'll be better than what we have now because those types of players tend to very often fall off a cliff (remember Schoop from last year versus this year) and they also get stupid contracts with stupid money over a stupid amount of years. No. Thank. You. Edited October 11, 2023 by 1984Echoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 17 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Malloy, Keith, Jung, Dingler, Bigbie and Wenceel are better players than what we have now. OH, and they'll be playing for Detroit next year. Already making our roster significantly better. Even MATON is a better choice than this year's crop of FA's. And spending money on older players is no guarantee they'll be better than what we have now because those types of players tend to very often fall off a cliff (remember Schoop from last year versus this year) and they also get stupid contracts with stupid money over a stupid amount of years. No. Thank. You. You don't know what type of players they will be. Nobody does. Counting on all of our prospects being successful is not a winning strategy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted October 11, 2023 Author Share Posted October 11, 2023 2 hours ago, RatkoVarda said: I assume the Tigers will go after FAs they want to go after, regardless of who their agent is Right. Just because we all hate Boras doesn't mean Harris won't work with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 24 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Malloy, Keith, Jung, Dingler, Bigbie and Wenceel are better players than what we have now Agree to disagree 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 1 hour ago, 1984Echoes said: Guessing is not assuming. Why are you mischaracterizing what I posted? Oh for crying out loud….. Why would we guess what happened before will happen again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gilmore Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 I would put the odds of all six of those players in Detroit next year at zero. Two are likely, most of the rest unlikely barring lots of injuries. So I’ll say Keith, Malloy and maybe Wenceel. I doubt Wenceel is more productive than Ibanez should he be called up. If Jung continues to impress in AF play, maybe he comes up instead of Perez. Personally I would dangle him for a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 47 minutes ago, casimir said: Why would we guess what happened before will happen again? It's just a guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Tigermojo said: You don't know what type of players they will be. Nobody does. Counting on all of our prospects being successful is not a winning strategy. But I DO know this: Schoop 2023 = .550 OPS and -0.4 WAR Maton 2023 = .593 OPS and -1.5 WAR Haase 2023 = .530 OPS and -0.9 WAR Lipcius 2023 = .742 OPS and -0.3 WAR Cabrera 2023 = .675 OPS and -0.4 WAR Nevin 2023 = .622 OPS and -0.7 WAR Short 2023 = .631 OPS and 0.5 WAR. Kelly 2023 = .540 OPS and 0.1 WEAR You know... The bar is pretty FREAKING LOW. You're right, don't know what those players will turn into... but again, the BAR is LOW. That's 1,386 AB's. I'll bet any amount you want my guys put up better numbers in MLB 2024 than these guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 4 hours ago, Tenacious D said: I agree. It’s just slim pickings, so the narrative will be that Ilitch is just cheap. Which is a BS narrative. But you are correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 6 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: But I DO know this: Schoop 2023 = .550 OPS and -0.4 WAR Maton 2023 = .593 OPS and -1.5 WAR Haase 2023 = .530 OPS and -0.9 WAR Lipcius 2023 = .742 OPS and -0.3 WAR Cabrera 2023 = .675 OPS and -0.4 WAR Nevin 2023 = .622 OPS and -0.7 WAR Short 2023 = .631 OPS and 0.5 WAR. Kelly 2023 = .540 OPS and 0.1 WEAR You know... The bar is pretty FREAKING LOW. You're right, don't know what those players will turn into... but again, the BAR is LOW. That's 1,386 AB's. I'll bet any amount you want my guys put up better numbers in MLB 2024 than these guys. Half those guys have previous MLB success which proves how hard the game is even with multiple years of experience. Counting on guys with zero experience is a gamble. We don't even know if Carpenter is for real or not. There's a ton of question marks on this team and adding more questions does not turn them into a contender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 13 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Lipcius 2023 = .742 OPS and -0.3 WAR actually of that list, Lipcius held his own in his limited audition - 38PA at 103 OPS+. Possible utility guy of the future there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 3 minutes ago, Tigermojo said: ... and adding more questions does not turn them into a contender. Adding crap players doesn't turn them into a contender either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 5 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: actually of that list, Lipcius held his own in his limited audition - 38PA at 103 OPS+. Possible utility guy of the future there. Which actually makes another argument... All these kids are still improving. It doesn't mean growth is linear or there won't be setbacks or disappointments... But on the whole... a team of youngsters tends to improve, overall. I'm not even going to count Carpenter because he may have been found out by pitchers and will regress in 2024... we'll see how that works out. But I expect the 2024 version to be better than the 2023 version for: Maton, 26 (I think he'll play more in '24 and will play better than in '23... just a guess) Greene, 23 Torkelson, 24 Meadows, 23 (will get a full season to prove what he can do) Skubal, 26 Manning, 25 Mize, 26 Lipcius, 25 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 3 hours ago, Toddwert said: not what you said and no one who wants them to spend said to throw money around like a drunken sailor I feel like I’m arguing with my wife. My point, which I believe I made, is that we should not enter into bad contracts in free agency just because we have the payroll. And to think I was going to ask you to grab a beer at a Pit Spitters game next season when I’m in Glen Arbor. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Tenacious D said: I feel like I’m arguing with my wife. My point, which I believe I made, is that we should not enter into bad contracts in free agency just because we have the payroll. And to think I was going to ask you to grab a beer at a Pit Spitters game next season when I’m in Glen Arbor. sorry if I get a little passionate about the Tigers I think we can all agree that we dont want bad contracts .... I think we can get better with some wise moves I love Glen Arbor ... I've done a lot of survey work up there Edited October 11, 2023 by Toddwert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 2 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: Malloy, Keith, Jung, Dingler, Bigbie and Wenceel are better players than what we have now. OH, and they'll be playing for Detroit next year. Already making our roster significantly better. Are you guessing or assuming? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddwert Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 8 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said: Which actually makes another argument... All these kids are still improving. It doesn't mean growth is linear or there won't be setbacks or disappointments... But on the whole... a team of youngsters tends to improve, overall. I'm not even going to count Carpenter because he may have been found out by pitchers and will regress in 2024... we'll see how that works out. But I expect the 2024 version to be better than the 2023 version for: Maton, 26 (I think he'll play more in '24 and will play better than in '23... just a guess) Greene, 23 Torkelson, 24 Meadows, 23 (will get a full season to prove what he can do) Skubal, 26 Manning, 25 Mize, 26 Lipcius, 25 there is also a ceiling to the growth it doesnt go on forever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 24 minutes ago, Toddwert said: there is also a ceiling to the growth it doesnt go on forever Correct. I understand that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 24 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Are you guessing or assuming? Neither. I am ALL-KNOWING... and... the bar really is pretty freaking low... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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