2023-24 Detroit Tigers Offseason Thread

[Motor City Sonics]

 

 

Then trade Joey Wentz for Soto.  Make it happen 

[chasfh]

Skubal ended the season showing flashes of being an ace, but he has not yet established himself as a bona fide ace, so that idea that we could trade him for something like a single-digit MLB position prospect (and plus?!) fetches a little far in my view.

[1984Echoes]

Which means it would be a futures trade, on both sides...

 

Any team trading for a Skubal or Manning or Turnbull or whomever is betting that they can get a higher level of performance out of that player. Either by betting on better health, or refining a pitch or two, or whatever...

The reason I believe our starters will be in demand is that I think other teams will look at our rotation and come to the conclusion that we have an excess of starting, young, controllable pitchers. Young, controllable, starters have value. Not Soto or Tatis value (unless part of a much larger package...); but individually, tradeable value. But.. that value will also be for futures IMO such as a blocked AA or AAA guy, plus younger "tickets".

Any team looking at the Tigers is going to be interested in our pitching because they'll see an excess and try to take advantage of that. Let's say a team simply wants an Olson or a Gipson-Long or Brieske or Faedo, to fill the back end of their rotation... what would they offer for that? A blocked AAA 3B'man?

And... if we were to sign a veteran, Yamamoto or anyone else... that just adds to that perception.

IMO.

[Tiger337]

There is no such thing as an excess of pitching.  You can never ever have too much pitching especially now with starters throwing fewer and fewer innings as time goes on.  

There is such a thing as a shortage of position players and a better supply of pitchers relative to position players.  

[Tenacious D]

I think we’re really underestimating Skubal’s trade value.  Performance-wise, he was elite last season.  And he has a reasonable salary. Any concerns would be health-related. 

His value is higher than ERod’s was, and apparently LA was willing to send us an attractive package for a potential rental. I’d expect that (plus) for Skubal).

[roarintiger1]

I certainly hope the Tigers are smart enough not to trade much of their strength in the pitching department so that it becomes a weakness. I would think that adding a couple of free agent bats would be a much better way to go.  Who that would be......I have no idea but don't trade your strength into a weakness.

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

There is no such thing as an excess of pitching....

I never said we had an excess of pitching.

I said other teams will PERCEIVE us to have an excess, and try to take advantage.

Last point/ question: What do we do with Spencer Turnbull?

[gehringer_2]

9 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

What do we do with Spencer Turnbull?

That question is sort of in limbo until he proves he can still pitch. He might be one of the unluck few percent who can't recover their command after TJ. It does happen.

[Tiger337]

11 minutes ago, 1984Echoes said:

I never said we had an excess of pitching.

I said other teams will PERCEIVE us to have an excess, and try to take advantage.

Last point/ question: What do we do with Spencer Turnbull?

Turnbull has barely pitched for three years and he is 30.  I don't think about him much.  

Edited October 14, 2023 by Tiger337

[1984Echoes]

9 minutes ago, roarintiger1 said:

I certainly hope the Tigers are smart enough not to trade much of their strength in the pitching department so that it becomes a weakness. I would think that adding a couple of free agent bats would be a much better way to go.  Who that would be......I have no idea but don't trade your strength into a weakness.

I wouldn't want to trade a strength into a weakness.

But we already have Turnbull, who I think is not wanted in Detroit.

He already is a starting pitcher trade probability.

 

There is almost no free agent bats worthwhile to sign this year. Matt Chapman (who is too old/ will be too expensive/ and command too many years/ and Harris has already stated that he will NOT sign a FA that blocks any of these kids); and Lee Hung-Soo, ands that's about it. Other than those two, we shouldn't throw good money at crappy bats, IMO. But rather, spend good money on good pitching, and look to add bats using alternative methods, IMO. I don't even believe that we need to add any bats. I want to see what the kids do first, including in the field, before making any decisions. I mean... it makes sense to me to do that.

If we sign FA pitching, that adds to our depth. 

I did not say that we MUST trade starting pitching; what I stated is that I believe teams will all be "banging on our door" for our pitching. I don't pretend to know the answers on how to approach this; I would leave that up to Harris to decide on whether to pull the trigger, or not, and for what.

I'm just sayin'... I think teams will be banging on our doors.

If that revives the Dodgers or any other trade, and that means sending out Lange, Turnbull, Manning, or any combination of pitchers on our roster and any other parts that are required in a trade... it wouldn't be unexpected by me. We have tradable assets: lots of controllable young talent. If a trade comes down this offseason, I won't be surprised.

Just sayin'...

[1984Echoes]

2 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

That question is sort of in limbo until he proves he can still pitch. He might be one of the unluck few percent who can't recover their command after TJ. It does happen.

3 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

Turnbull has barely pitched for three years and he is 30.  I don't think about him much.  

 

Some team will take a flyer on him.

I would expect almost nothing in return... but again...

Some team will take a flyer on him.

It happens every year.

[Tenacious D]

Turnbull is the kind of high risk, high reward signing the Tigers should consider.  Except that we already have him.  I’m glad he’s still in the mix.

[SoCalTiger]

The Turnbull situation is interesting. Apart from him not being very good it's clear Harris wanted the second year of control for trade purposes I think. But considering Turnbull seemed to do everything possible to get those five days of service to be a free agent after next year and failed. So now we have an unhappy pitcher. I wonder if Harris should have just called him up late September to get those five days and in result have a motivated player next year heading into free agency instead of a pouter.  As G2 stated until he pitches well it's a wasted roster spot and money.

[Tigerbomb13]

I could see Turnbull having some value in the pen. Hopefully he can regain some command before he inevitably gets hurt again. Expectations are low though. 

[Tiger337]

27 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Turnbull is the kind of high risk, high reward signing the Tigers should consider.  Except that we already have him.  I’m glad he’s still in the mix.

Sure, he's in the mix.  I just have no expectation that he'll succeed.  If he does, then great.  I don't think he has any meaningful trade value.  

[Toddwert]

15 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said:

The Turnbull situation is interesting. Apart from him not being very good it's clear Harris wanted the second year of control for trade purposes I think. But considering Turnbull seemed to do everything possible to get those five days of service to be a free agent after next year and failed. So now we have an unhappy pitcher. I wonder if Harris should have just called him up late September to get those five days and in result have a motivated player next year heading into free agency instead of a pouter.  As G2 stated until he pitches well it's a wasted roster spot and money.

sounds like hes  difficult and the Tigers arent going out of their way to make him happy

[casimir]

1 hour ago, gehringer_2 said:

That question is sort of in limbo until he proves he can still pitch. He might be one of the unluck few percent who can't recover their command after TJ. It does happen.

 

1 hour ago, Tiger337 said:

Turnbull has barely pitched for three years and he is 30.  I don't think about him much.  

Maybe he gets traded for another player in a comparable situation?  I don’t know who that would be nor if there is a comparison to begin with.

Maybe he is used as a throw in for a bat?  It seems like they should add a proven bat with some sort of multi season control at either 2B or 3B.  Or maybe even SS and push Baez to 2B, although that seems tough to see happening.

I know there’s a lot of thought that Keith and Jung can be assigned to 2B / 3B one way or another and it’ll be fine going forward.  While there’s talk about pitching being a strength, maybe LHH hitting IFs with questionable defensive assignments are a surplus to deal from?  Maybe it makes sense to move one for a more defensive IF without punting on offense?

[Tiger337]

15 minutes ago, casimir said:

 

Maybe he gets traded for another player in a comparable situation?  I don’t know who that would be nor if there is a comparison to begin with.

Maybe he is used as a throw in for a bat?  It seems like they should add a proven bat with some sort of multi season control at either 2B or 3B.  Or maybe even SS and push Baez to 2B, although that seems tough to see happening.

I know there’s a lot of thought that Keith and Jung can be assigned to 2B / 3B one way or another and it’ll be fine going forward.  While there’s talk about pitching being a strength, maybe LHH hitting IFs with questionable defensive assignments are a surplus to deal from?  Maybe it makes sense to move one for a more defensive IF without punting on offense?

I can see them making one of those Randy Smith era multi-player deals involving major leaguers or major league ready players except I am hoping Harris is a little smarter than Smith and able to steal a useful player.  

[holygoat]

Turnbull is one of those dudes who is probably more valuable to the team he's already on than anything they could hope to get in return for him.

[Tenacious D]

2 minutes ago, holygoat said:

Turnbull is one of those dudes who is probably more valuable to the team he's already on than anything they could hope to get in return for him.

This.  At least until he can reestablish himself.  I put him in the same camp as Mize for next season.  Not counting on either, but both have the potential to be very good if they can get it together.

[RatkoVarda]

Turnbull looks cooked to me; combined that with his injury history, age, and disagreement about being demoted, maybe it is best to move on, but the return would be minimal.

Turnbull for Tyler O'Neil? Turnbull for Victor Robles? Turnbull for Nick Senzel?

[gehringer_2]

3 hours ago, RatkoVarda said:

Turnbull looks cooked to me; combined that with his injury history, age, and disagreement about being demoted, maybe it is best to move on, but the return would be minimal.

Turnbull for Tyler O'Neil? Turnbull for Victor Robles? Turnbull for Nick Senzel?

Hard to know if the the service time angling by both sides is going to produce long term rancor or if both side just accept it as playing the CBA correctly for each. Could certainly go either way. We might also get a little insight into how harshly the team takes it when players push their prerogatives with how fast ERod does or doesn't end up with a different team.....😇😖

Edited October 14, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Edman85]

Are Arbitration hearings public? May be worth the flight to listen in on Turnbull's.

[gehringer_2]

2 hours ago, Edman85 said:

Are Arbitration hearings public? May be worth the flight to listen in on Turnbull's.

Drinking game around how many times Boras says "no-hitter"?

[Jim Cowan]

I don't see Turnbull as disgruntled at all.  Just faithfully following Boras' advice, no hard feelings.  And why not?