SoCalTiger Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 44 minutes ago, casimir said: And they’re not going to fix every pitcher. Anyone else notice Gregory Soto had his best season by far after leaving Detroit? Make no mistake, I think Fetter & Co are good at what they do. But buy broken & fix it up is not a fail proof approach. Philly never used the Wild man in pressure situations and he sat virtually all of the post season so I think that's easier than closing for Detroit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 4 hours ago, Toddwert said: Petzolds possible Tigers Bounce back pitching targets: https://www.freep.com/story/sports/mlb/tigers/2023/11/12/detroit-tigers-in-mlb-free-agency-breaking-down-bounce-back-pitchers/71530397007/ Petzold made a very interesting comment about adding Maeda and treating him well to open a door to more over seas Asian pitchers. We should consider that for Maria or Yu. Texas did that a few years back with Darvish and it worked so well they were on Ohtani's first list of seven options and still are now. In fact I think Texas or Seattle will land Ohtani rather than the favorite Dodgers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said: Petzold made a very interesting comment about adding Maeda and treating him well to open a door to more over seas Asian pitchers. We should consider that for Maria or Yu. Texas did that a few years back with Darvish and it worked so well they were on Ohtani's first list of seven options and still are now. In fact I think Texas or Seattle will land Ohtani rather than the favorite Dodgers. The Tigers seem to be good at fixing broken pitchers, so they should keep doing it. However they should also pursue pitchers who are not broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 3 hours ago, Tigermojo said: Harris' whole selling point is come to Detroit, we can help you improve. Now he has success stories with Rodriguez, Lorenzen and somewhat with Boyd. He can go to free agents and offer them a year, maybe an option or an opt out and they will be motivated to perform their best. I don't see that working well for the top guys on the market because they are already at their best but Harris could surprise us. I do like the idea of a couple motivated guys in the rotation taking the pressure off the younger guys. I would also like to see a veteran brought into the bullpen because I'm not sold on Lange in the closer role. Third base is the biggest question mark and I'm curious to see how Harris will handle that issue. Well we can offer the top pitchers money, a pitchers ballpark, solid analytics to keep him at the top of their game , a young up and coming team and to turn lemons into lemonade tell them Rodriguez preferred Detroit over LA to the point of refusing a trade. Detroit can get anyone. There isn't any handicap except the self imposed ones. Again "why not Detroit"...and oh yes the best damn fans in the game ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Tiger337 said: The Tigers seem to be good at fixing broken pitchers, so they should keep doing it. However they should also pursue pitchers who are not broken. Absolutely..."bit of both"...Star lord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1776 Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Toddwert said: dont hold your breath Oh, I’m a realist. I can dream though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 5 hours ago, 1984Echoes said: If I have this right... You believe the Tigers are some Black Hole Team that every single halfway decent or better starting pitcher will "Avoid-At-All-Costs" to come to...? Do I have that right? Is that what you think the Tigers are? I didn’t say that. I believe our front office will not get into a big bidding war for the top free agent pitchers. But strictly a guess, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 I also don't think they'll get into a bidding "war" for any free agent... But I also think they'll put a $-Value on what's out there and something will shake loose for a "not bottom-feeding" starter. My hope is that they put a very high value on Yamamoto as a 25 y.o. FA and lower values on the plethora of 35-ish starters available. But even with that, I believe they'll still be able to get a mid-rotation guy if not one of the top guys and they'll still chase after an end-of-rotation/ comeback-value type of starter. But... we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Winter meetings are three weeks from tomorrow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted November 13, 2023 Author Share Posted November 13, 2023 4 hours ago, 1776 said: So I understand the ‘fix it and flip it’ model Harris has going on the with pitchers. Same as when he was in S.F. My question is, how do you build a rotation for the future, or is that even a part of the plan at all? One year deals and opt outs don’t seem like a long game plan. There will be less of that when we are actually in full contention mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 14 hours ago, SoCalTiger said: Philly never used the Wild man in pressure situations and he sat virtually all of the post season so I think that's easier than closing for Detroit. That could be it, I don't know. But it seems a stretch that reduced pressure alone would drive his 5.0 BB9 to 3.3 while his SO9 remains intact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 11 hours ago, Tigermojo said: Winter meetings are three weeks from tomorrow! Stupid MLB. Winter doesn't start until the week after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 13 hours ago, Tigermojo said: Winter meetings are three weeks from tomorrow! Did anyone get their Rule V Party invitation yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Tiger337 said: Did anyone get their Rule V Party invitation yet? Are we having one this year? I would assume we are still in the market for Rule V'ers but... Ya' know... I don't really want to ASSUME... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted November 13, 2023 Author Share Posted November 13, 2023 I'm more interested in the Rule IV draft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 2 hours ago, casimir said: That could be it, I don't know. But it seems a stretch that reduced pressure alone would drive his 5.0 BB9 to 3.3 while his SO9 remains intact. Probably not alone since that is a big difference for sure. Maybe being traded or on a winner motivated him more ? I think Fetters pretty good so wouldn’t think it’s because of better coaching. Hard to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 17 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said: Probably not alone since that is a big difference for sure. Maybe being traded or on a winner motivated him more ? I think Fetters pretty good so wouldn’t think it’s because of better coaching. Hard to say. With a relief pitcher, a manager's decisions can make a big difference. Without a batter by batter analysis it's hard to know how much effort Thompson made to keep Soto in front of free swingers. But more significantly, if you look at his pitch usage, it's clear that from season to season Soto's slider command comes and goes. He had commanded it well in '21, and had a nice season for the Tigers. It disappeared in '22 and he was down to being pretty much a one pitch pitcher. This year in Philly looked a lot more like 2021 for him with his slider usage at the highest in in career so he clearly had regained better command of it. But looking at his record, you'd be hard pressed to not to believe it could disappear for him again at any time. Year/team/leag/FB%/SL% 2019 DET MLB 70.5% (95.4) 23.9% (85.0) 5.7% (88.2) 0.4% 2020 DET MLB 79.7% (97.3) 20.3% (87.8) 2021 DET MLB 62.4% (98.3) 37.6% (88.4) 0.7% 2022 DET MLB 77.4% (98.4) 21.6% (89.3) 1.0% (91.9) 0.4% 2023 PHI MLB 60.8% (98.3) 39.0% (87.9) 0.2% (92.0) 0.1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 47 minutes ago, chasfh said: I'm more interested in the Rule IV draft. I remember when they used to have a separate January draft. That was back when most people didn't care about the draft, but it was kind of a big deal when the Tigers got Kemp. I also remember the free agent draft where teams had to draft free agents with whom they wanted to negotiate. That one used to suck because we'd find out that the Tigers selected a bunch of crappy middle relievers and utility players, while all the good teams drafted Rollie Fingers and Reggie Jackson. At least they were honest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Tiger337 said: I remember when they used to have a separate January draft. That was back when most people didn't care about the draft, but it was kind of a big deal when the Tigers got Kemp. I also remember the free agent draft where teams had to draft free agents with whom they wanted to negotiate. That one used to suck because we'd find out that the Tigers selected a bunch of crappy middle relievers and utility players, while all the good teams drafted Rollie Fingers and Reggie Jackson. At least they were honest! Why were there multiple amateur drafts in a year? Wait, hold on..... A draft for free agents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 https://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Free_agent_reentry_draft 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 4 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: With a relief pitcher, a manager's decisions can make a big difference. Without a batter by batter analysis it's hard to know how much effort Thompson made to keep Soto in front of free swingers. But more significantly, if you look at his pitch usage, it's clear that from season to season Soto's slider command comes and goes. He had commanded it well in '21, and had a nice season for the Tigers. It disappeared in '22 and he was down to being pretty much a one pitch pitcher. This year in Philly looked a lot more like 2021 for him with his slider usage at the highest in in career so he clearly had regained better command of it. But looking at his record, you'd be hard pressed to not to believe it could disappear for him again at any time. Year/team/leag/FB%/SL% 2019 DET MLB 70.5% (95.4) 23.9% (85.0) 5.7% (88.2) 0.4% 2020 DET MLB 79.7% (97.3) 20.3% (87.8) 2021 DET MLB 62.4% (98.3) 37.6% (88.4) 0.7% 2022 DET MLB 77.4% (98.4) 21.6% (89.3) 1.0% (91.9) 0.4% 2023 PHI MLB 60.8% (98.3) 39.0% (87.9) 0.2% (92.0) 0.1 Well thats an objective reason for sure. Interesting thought about pitching him against free swingers v pitch counters. I never thought of that. Wonder if AJ has ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Tomorrow is Rule 5 protection day. Here's a full list of who is Rule 5 Eligible. P Jose Alvarez Yeremi Bastardo Austin Bergner Michael Bienlien Jorge Boyer Jaison Brete Blair Calvo Jesus Cruz Daniele Di Monte Jose Diaz Wilmer Fenelon Wilmer Flores Dario Gardea Sean Guenther Layne Henderson Wilkel Hernandez Martin Herrera Zack Hess Jake Higginbotham Edgardo Ibarra Marco Jimenez Abraham Landaeta Andrew Magno Chris Mauloni Williander Moreno Tim Naughton Hendry Nunez Carlos Pena Eric Pinales Angel Reyes Jose Rivas Erick Rodriguez Jesus Rodriguez Bryan Sammons Yosber Sanchez Gabriel Sequeira Ted Stuka Bryce Tassin Matt Walker Adam Wolf Aneurys Zabala C Eliezer Alfonzo Daneurys De La Cruz Dillon Dingler Ricardo Hurtado Samuel Rojas Newremberg Rondon Sergio Tapia Eduardo Valencia IF Angel Cruz Geury Estevez Alvaro Gonzalez Jake Holton Corey Joyce Carlos Mendoza Andrew Navigato Quincy Nieporte Adinso Reyes Gage Workman OF Lazaro Benitez Danny Cabrera Roberto Campos Trei Cruz Raudy De Los Santos Iverson Leonardo Abelaldo Lopez Jesus Machado Jose Ochoa Jose Reina Manuel Sequera The only two I would keep are Dingler and Flores. One thing I hope the transaction logs cover is the minor league protection. You can protect up to 38 players from the Minor League phase, but you probably don't want to fill all those spots up, because you also need to make room for any players you outright between now and the Rule 5 draft, any minor league free agents signed between now and the Rule 5 draft, and any players you want to take in the minor league phase. A lot of players will be clearing waivers tomorrow. There's a decent chance the Tigers claim at least one. Tomorrow is the last day players added to the 40 man roster since August 15 can be outrighted until March. Same for injured players. Those players can still be non-tendered Friday. A player DFA'ed tomorrow can be non-tendered on Friday (which may be beneficial if you have a deal in place with them because it bypasses waivers). 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Gilmore Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 Ed, I think I speak for all us morans here in saying thanks for sharing all the research and knowledge. 👍 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 Agree that only Flores and Dingler are spared. They might like Peña and Campos, too, but seems like low risk of a team wanting to carry them on their major league roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 2 hours ago, Dan Gilmore said: Ed, I think I speak for all us morans here in saying thanks for sharing all the research and knowledge. 👍 I still don't understand it but I appreciate the effort! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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