2023-24 Detroit Tigers Offseason Thread

[1776]

3 minutes ago, mtutiger said:

I think Scott Harris really likes AJ Hinch, sees him as a partner in this relationship, and sees that relationship continuing beyond the existing contract. Simply put, he's sold on AJ in the role of manager.

Absolutely agree. 

[LongLiveMaroth]

 

 

[Jim Cowan]

I'm neither disappointed nor pleased. As some have pointed out it removes the lame duck aura, but other than that it doesn't make business sense.  I am not aware that Hinch does much particular harm, or much particular good, same as any other manager.

[Jim Cowan]

Leyland also did a nice job of chewing post-game food while being interviewed.

[alex]

3 hours ago, mtutiger said:

One thing that seems pretty well cleared up is that, contra commentary from some, it confirms the obvious: Harris and Hinch enjoy the partnership and there isn't a ton of daylight between the two of them.

Agree as well 

[Shinzaki]

On 12/3/2023 at 11:02 PM, Jim Cowan said:

I'm happy about this.  I wanted him to get the job instead of Les Moss and Sparky Anderson, but things worked out in the end.

Dumping Moss to hire Sparky was so unlike Jim Campbell....

[Jim Cowan]

2 minutes ago, Shinzaki said:

Dumping Moss to hire Sparky was so unlike Jim Campbell....

Yes, everybody knows Leyland had a Tigers org pedigree but so did Moss, he had paid his dues.  But Anderson was a "proven winner" as if against all odds he had managed to achieve success with a team that included Bench, Morgan, Rose, Tony Perez, Griffey Sr etc.  

You're right it was uncharacteristic of Campbell whose great sin otherwise was keeping guys too long, as opposed to ditching them too soon. 

[Jim Cowan]

2 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

I'm neither disappointed nor pleased. As some have pointed out it removes the lame duck aura, but other than that it doesn't make business sense.  I am not aware that Hinch does much particular harm, or much particular good, same as any other manager.

I do have to modify this a bit...I don't like the way he wears his hat.  He jams it down tight on his head, the tops of his ears are sticking up above his hat band, and the top of his hat is clinging to his head.

That isn't how you wear a baseball hat.  You wear the band above the tops of your ears, and there is an air space between the top of your head and the inside of your hat.

If I were to fire him for anything, it would be this.

[holygoat]

4 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

Leyland also did a nice job of chewing post-game food while being interviewed.

You can't chew yesterday's breakfast.

[RandyMarsh]

The Tigers pitching has seemed to out pitch their skill level and projections since Hinch took over,  naturally Fetter has been given most of the credit for that but maybe Hinch has had a hand in it as well?

At the very least he may be using the guys in a way that maximizes their performance while not putting them in spots where they are more likely to fail. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by RandyMarsh

[casimir]

1 hour ago, RandyMarsh said:

The Tigers pitching has seemed to out pitch their skill level and projections since Hinch took over,  naturally Fetter has been given most of the credit for that but maybe Hinch has had a hand in it as well?

At the very least he may be using the guys in a way that maximizes their performance while not putting them in spots where they are more likely to fail. 

Let's not forget Robin Lund and Juan Nieves at the major league level, and the coaches and trainers in the minor leagues contributing as well.  The pitching gets prepared enough to be deployable at the major leagues.

But, to your point, it would be interesting to know how the Tigers handle pitching (and other aspects of the game).  Pitching, for instance, is it a collective organizational work stream that is governed by Harris, Hinch, and Fetter?  Are Lund and Nieves driving forces in the theory or in simply helping to carry out the work stream?

Edited December 5, 2023 by casimir

[Longgone]

4 hours ago, holygoat said:

You can't chew yesterday's breakfast.

You can, but you won't want to.

[casimir]

Hall of Famer Jim Leyland Regrets Cussing Out Barry Bonds

Quote

 

"He (Bonds) called me last night, [our relationship] is great," said Leyland, who waited a beat before adding, "except for about five minutes one day."

...

Leyland said the blowup was the result of a misunderstanding.    

"I'm not proud of that to this day," he said. "It happened. And you can't turn away from it because everybody saw it, so you can't act like it didn't happen. But I'm not proud of that."

What was he not proud of? That it was caught on video and shared with the world? Or what he said to Bonds that day?

"My language was bad for the whole world to see," Leyland said.

 

[KL2]

11 hours ago, 1776 said:

Or possibly better. I’ve never been a big fan of AJ Hinch but that has nothing to do with my point. He is here for two more years to begin with, for better or worse. Nobody out there is calling about interviewing Hinch, that I’m sure of. He’s not going anywhere. A year from now, yeah maybe. Just me, but I’d wait to see what next year looks like. 
 

Craig Counsell 

[chasfh]

11 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

I assumed Hinch would be around for a while, so this is not a surprise to me.  I am neither happy nor disappointed.  He didn't seem to handle the Houston situation well, but I don't sense there is any trouble with the Tigers.  The Tigers have had good bullpens since he has been with them too which is one of the few areas I believe a manager can be worth a small number of games.  On the other hand, it could be fetter who is doing it.  

I don’t blame Hinch for the thing in Houston, since the cheating was crooked up by his bosses in the front office who went around him to the players. What was he gonna do, call a cop? The front office wanted to win by any means possible and they weren’t going to let A.J. Hinch **** that up. That’s pretty much where the Frontline doc ended up on it and it makes sense.

[Tiger337]

6 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I don’t blame Hinch for the thing in Houston, since the cheating was crooked up by his bosses in the front office who went around him to the players. What was he gonna do, call a cop? The front office wanted to win by any means possible and they weren’t going to let A.J. Hinch **** that up. That’s pretty much where the Frontline doc ended up on it and it makes sense.

That is what we were told.  It seems to me that a strong manager would have been able to infuence either his bosses or players.  I am not putting all the blame on him, but a manager has to take some responsibilty for that.  What would Jim Leyland have done?  

[chasfh]

11 hours ago, 1776 said:

Or possibly better. I’ve never been a big fan of AJ Hinch but that has nothing to do with my point. He is here for two more years to begin with, for better or worse. Nobody out there is calling about interviewing Hinch, that I’m sure of. He’s not going anywhere. A year from now, yeah maybe. Just me, but I’d wait to see what next year looks like. 
 

For reasons they feel are important, the Tigers didn’t want Hinch to feel as though living he’s on the edge of a cliff. They wanted him to feel secure for the number of years they believe it will take to turn this completely around, so he will feel fully committed to its success, instead of being potentially a Rick Renteria-type doing the grunt work of managing the transition and then handing the team over to someone else perhaps more famous. And besides, if Hinch were to inexplicably fall apart in the next two years and go rouge with cheating or something and screw the whole thing up, the Tigers could simply fire him with years left on his contract, the way they did with Avila, although the chances of that happening are too small to see with the naked eye.

I approve of the move.

[oblong]

Hinch did pay a price. He missed out on a year’s salary. 

[casimir]

5 minutes ago, oblong said:

Hinch did pay a price. He missed out on a year’s salary. 

And removed from the Astros during the best stretch in their history.

[chasfh]

7 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

That is what we were told.  It seems to me that a strong manager would have been able to infuence either his bosses or players.  I am not putting all the blame on him, but a manager has to take some responsibilty for that.  What would Jim Leyland have done?  

I think you might be ascribing too much organizational power to the field manager, especially in this era of analytical front offices hiring warm-body managers for cheap who agreeably serve as a game strategy tool just so they can keep one of only 30 such jobs in the world.

To your point, as the manager, it’s reasonable to expect Hinch to take responsibility for the cheating scandal, and he did, losing his job and serving a one-year suspension from baseball for it. Hinch was punished harder than any of the players who actually participated in the scheme on the field!  I’m not sure what else people want.

[gehringer_2]

9 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

whose great sin otherwise

I'd put that under Campbell the plantation mentality was strong and the org was too cheap to keep winning right up there on their list of sins.

Edited December 5, 2023 by gehringer_2

[Tiger337]

9 minutes ago, chasfh said:

I think you might be ascribing too much organizational power to the field manager, especially in this era of analytical front offices hiring warm-body managers for cheap who agreeably serve as a game strategy tool just so they can keep one of only 30 such jobs in the world.

To your point, as the manager, it’s reasonable to expect Hinch to take responsibility for the cheating scandal, and he did, losing his job and serving a one-year suspension from baseball for it. Hinch was punished harder than any of the players who actually participated in the scheme on the field!  I’m not sure what else people want.

I would never assume that a baseball manager has a lot of power!  I think I've made that clear many times.  I don't want to see any further punishment.  I just consider it a negative in his resume.  I don't have any complaints about his management of the Tigers.  

[chasfh]

15 minutes ago, Tiger337 said:

I would never assume that a baseball manager has a lot of power!  I think I've made that clear many times.  I don't want to see any further punishment.  I just consider it a negative in his resume.  I don't have any complaints about his management of the Tigers.  

I was just responding to your point that Hinch is not a strong manager who can control front offices. I think Hinch did show some real strength by objecting the best way he could. He knew he couldn’t stop it, because the front office was undercutting his authority by working directly with the players on it, but he could and did make his displeasure with it crystal clear. I think that’s probably the most we could have expected from a guy in his unique situation. 

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, chasfh said:

I was just responding to your point that Hinch is not a strong manager who can control front offices. I think Hinch did show some real strength by objecting the best way he could. He knew he couldn’t stop it, because the front office was undercutting his authority by working directly with the players on it, but he could and did make his displeasure with it crystal clear. I think that’s probably the most we could have expected from a guy in his unique situation. 

the counter argument is that he could have quit, and ratted out his org. But that's easy to say in hindsight, The truth is that being right is no protection against being blackballed out of ever managing again anywhere by the 'old boy's club'

[Tiger337]

20 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said:

the counter argument is that he could have quit, and ratted out his org. But that's easy to say in hindsight, The truth is that being right is no protection against being blackballed out of ever managing again anywhere by the 'old boy's club'

I think Leyland would have quit.  I understand that's easier for an old veteran mamager who is close to retirement.  The hard part would be telling MLB about it, not so much because he'd be afraid of being blackballed, but more because he'd be throwing players under the bus.    I won't call it "ratting" because that suggests that telling the truth is a bad thing.