2023-24 Detroit Tigers Offseason Thread

[chasfh]

18 hours ago, Tiger337 said:

If the season started today, they would have eight relievers pretty much locked in to start the season.  In that case, six starters would not be an option.  Somebody will get hurt, but it seems like 6 starters is not the plan.

Foley

Holton

Lange

Chafin

Vest

Faedo

Brieske

Miller

 

This might be how it ends up but presuming these are the eight guys, I think Miller starts out further back in the pen:

• Lange
• Miller
• Foley
• Chafin
• Holton
• Brieske
• Vest
• Faedo

I’m guessing even this would not be etched in stone end of March, though. We’ll probably see save opportunities go to Lange and Miller and Foley; set-up opportunities go to all three plus Chafin and Holton; and spot starts/openings from Vest and Faedo. I wouldn’t doubt it if we saw Olson and SGL spend some time in the back of the pen at times. As much as Harris is criticized for seeking flexibility with the position players, I think we’ll see the same with the pitching staff, and that will continue until we get enough guys rising up to earn established roles that we will finally have a team of regulars.

Bet you a dollar Brieske never sees the Tiger roster ever again. Just a hunch.

Edited December 24, 2023 by chasfh

[Tenacious D]

44 minutes ago, chasfh said:

Bet you a dollar Brieske never sees the Tiger roster ever again. Just a hunch.

Is he getting traded?  He was rushed to the majors in 2022 and hurt a good chunk of last season.  I’ll take that bet.

[Motor City Sonics]

Has Spencer Turnbull signed anywhere yet?    Just wondering.   (I know he won't pitch here again unless there is a regime change).  Sad how badly that went south.  

[1984Echoes]

2 hours ago, chasfh said:

I don’t mind the six-starter theory as long as there are only five slots in the rotation, and the last slot is split among...

Yeah that's how I described it:

5-man rotation using 6 starters.

I think that works mostly if they want to severely limit Mize's, and maybe even Manning's innings this year. Even moreso if they want both in MLB and NOT in Toledo, but the top 4 spots have been taken by Skubal/ Maeda/ Flaherty/ Olson. They could pitch ~4 innings each in a game, and alternate who starts each time. 30 starts where each pitch ~ 4 innings = 120 innings each. More or less...

Just an idea...

[RatkoVarda]

unless they are decimated by injuries in ST, some talented pitchers are ticketed for Toledo to start the season. no idea who will start where, but the April staff will be different than September staff.

overall talent level appears to be good, with legit possibility of very good. overall depth appears to be very good, with legit possibility of great.

[Tenacious D]

Why do we need to limit Manning’s innings?  His injuries were foot-related.  Take the training wheels off.  In my mind, only Mize needs the special treatment.

[casimir]

8 hours ago, Jim Cowan said:

If Toledo had a decent rotation in 2024, that would be light years ahead of 2023, when almost nobody here could have named even 2 starters.

It was absolutely atrocious.  The home scoreboard showed 3 runs for the opposition before the game started last season.

[casimir]

11 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Why do we need to limit Manning’s innings?  His injuries were foot-related.  Take the training wheels off.  In my mind, only Mize needs the special treatment.

I think for Manning it’s more that he hasn’t pitched 100 innings in a season since 2019.  That gradual buildup of adding 20-30 innings per season as a developing pitcher has been interrupted.  It’s more that than the injuries last season, although the injuries do factor into the interruption.

The other thing is, he might not be good enough to crack a 5 man rotation come Opening Day.  His traditionals last season are a bit of a mirage.

[Tenacious D]

21 minutes ago, casimir said:

I think for Manning it’s more that he hasn’t pitched 100 innings in a season since 2019.  That gradual buildup of adding 20-30 innings per season as a developing pitcher has been interrupted.  It’s more that than the injuries last season, although the injuries do factor into the interruption.

The other thing is, he might not be good enough to crack a 5 man rotation come Opening Day.  His traditionals last season are a bit of a mirage.

Definitely agree with your second point.  I doubt we’d do it, but I would put Olsen ahead of Manning.  His performance last year warrants it.

[1984Echoes]

1 hour ago, Tenacious D said:

Why do we need to limit Manning’s innings?  His injuries were foot-related.  Take the training wheels off.  In my mind, only Mize needs the special treatment.

Manning pitched an average of 86 innings in both 2022 and 2023, 0 innings in 2020 and 118 innings in 2021...

I don't think they'll jump him to 186+ innings in 2024. I don't know IF they will limit him, but I'm guessing yes, and then, if yes... does that mean 120 innings or 150 innings or what...?

I don't know. But on a guess... I don't think he pitches innings in a "go-for-broke" vein...

[IdahoBert]

I’m starting to get ever so cautiously optimistic about this team. But I’m worried that it’ll be like you are nine years old and you think you’re going to get a new bike for Christmas from Grandma but instead you get a framed portrait of her. The movement on pitching is interesting and it looks promising. I just hope there are guys who know how to hit the ball. This hitting the ball thing is pretty important too. Please hit the ball a lot. 

[Tenacious D]

Some reasons for optimism:

-Greene, Tork and Carpenter stay healthy and build on the success they had last year.

-Baez figures a way to climb out of last season’s black hole and hits .250 with 20 bombs.

-Canha, hitting mostly leadoff, has a .350+ OBP

-Keith and Malloy make the team and have respectable rookie seasons offensively.

-We don’t have to rely on AB’s from Nevin, Schoop and Short, and much fewer from McKinstry.

[chasfh]

I am optimistic that TORK!, especially, will take a nice step forward in 2024, based on how he finished this year. I am also confident that Riley will be All-Star level while on the field—it’s just, he’s gotta stay on the field.

Canha will be a good one-year placeholder as we figure out our outfield situation for the 2025-2028 timeframe. We may need another one of those placeholder guys next year, but from among Riley, Parker, Max, and JHM, I’m thinking we can get at least two decent regulars out of that for that timeframe. Might need a good free agent signing to top it off.

Third base is still a bit of a tire fire, but fingers crossed that Andy Ibanez has the same kind of year next year at second base that he did this year: two wins with decent stick and plus D.

I am actually quite optimistic Javy will have a resurgent year in 2024. He’s arguably the most emotional guy in the game, someone who feeds off of what’s happening around him. This team was the walking dead in 2022 and considered about the same going into 2023, and I think this was a big reason his performance got dragged down both years. But if he senses there’s optimism that we can contend for the playoffs in 2024, which I think we can, I can see him keying off that and putting up two, maybe three wins or better at shortstop. 

Catching is a bit of a black box since I’m not sure what we really have in Jake, but I’m hopeful we won’t be in the bottom third of the game with that position.

This team is nothing like a juggernaut, but I think as currently constructed, we have better than a puncher’s chance to contend for a Central title next year. I think some national guys will even favor us in their mostly pointless preview columns next March.

[Tenacious D]

I don’t worry too much about catcher—few teams get much offense there.

I think Vierling will get first crack at 3B, barring another acquisition.  He or Ibanez are keeping it warm until Jung gets proms at some point.

My biggest lineup concern is CF.  If Meadows struggles, we don’t have many other everyday options to play there—Baddoo or Vierling?  I don’t want to see Riley there ever again—too many opportunities to lay out for a fly ball (and risk injury).

[romad1]

SO, I left MLBtraderumors on my browser overnight on the Tigers rumors.  Poor Donnie Sands being designated for assignment is the bummer headline on there still.   

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, Tenacious D said:

I don’t want to see Riley there ever again—too many opportunities to lay out for a fly ball (and risk injury).

One second thought, I'm not sure there is a material difference in which field he plays if he can't be more careful with himself. In the corners there are more walls to hit - which Riley has also done. He needs to play more controlled no matter where he is.

[Tenacious D]

6 minutes ago, romad1 said:

SO, I left MLBtraderumors on my browser overnight on the Tigers rumors.  Poor Donnie Sands being designated for assignment is the bummer headline on there still.   

Fired right before Christmas.  Where’s the outrage with Scrooge Harris?

[Tenacious D]

Just now, gehringer_2 said:

One second thought, I'm not sure there is a material difference in which field he plays if he can't be more careful with himself. In the corners there are more walls to hit - which Riley has also done. He needs to play more controlled no matter where he is.

Agree, but Meadows can cover even more ground in CF, if Riley is in LF.  

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, Tenacious D said:

Agree, but Meadows can cover even more ground in CF, if Riley is in LF.  

no arg that if Meadows' bat continues to play that is the superior outcome.

[romad1]

24 minutes ago, Tenacious D said:

Fired right before Christmas.  Where’s the outrage with Scrooge Harris?

The ghost of John Wockenfuss is going to show him the true meaning of Christmas

[SoCalTiger]

I am optimistic because the pitching staff has depth, we have strong defenders up the middle, a leadoff man who can get on base, a low $ payroll that can be added to if opportunity arises and we play in weak division. 

[HeyAbbott]

I am guardedly optimistic. The bullpen looks to be solid. The starting pitching is somewhat suspect. With a little use of the depth that seems to be bubbling up in the system, any shortfall can be plugged when playing in the weak AL Central.

 Third base remains a problem. This lineup, while lengthened with the addition of Canha and some glimmer of hope from Keith, seems a little too light to win 88 to 90 games. 82 to 84 games seems about right.

Edited December 26, 2023 by HeyAbbott

[Motor City Sonics]

15 hours ago, HeyAbbott said:

I am guardedly optimistic. The bullpen looks to be solid. The starting pitching is somewhat suspect. With a little use of the depth that seems to be bubbling up in the system, any shortfall can be plugged when playing in the weak AL Central.

 Third base remains a problem. This lineup, while lengthened with the addition of Canha and some glimmer of hope from Keith, seems a little too light to win 88 to 90 games. 82 to 84 games seems about right.

only if they avoid another horrible start.   That's the key right there.   We know once they get into the season they are okay, but the last 3 seasons those terrible starts had them out of it before Memorial Day.   If they want to even pretend to contend in this weak division, they have to be, at worst, 2 or 3 games under .500,  not something like 9-22

[gehringer_2]

1 minute ago, Motor City Sonics said:

only if they avoid another horrible start.   That's the key right there.   We know once they get into the season they are okay, but the last 3 seasons those terrible starts had them out of it before Memorial Day.   If they want to even pretend to contend in this weak division, they have to be, at worst, 2 or 3 games under .500,  not something like 9-22

This is exactly it. They were a 500 team last May-Oct. If that team shows up this April they don't need to be much better to get to 85-88.

[Motor City Sonics]

3 hours ago, gehringer_2 said:

This is exactly it. They were a 500 team last May-Oct. If that team shows up this April they don't need to be much better to get to 85-88.

We've said this the last 3 years and it keeps happening.