oblong Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, mtutiger said: I think you can be pro-player while still recognizing that this is a business and these negotiations have two parties who are going to negotiate their side to the best of their abilities. Fans hate it, understandably, because it isn't their money, but the fact that fans hate it doesn't make it not a reality. We've had this discussion in other contexts as well (ie. non-tenders during the last offseason, not gonna say the name because that horse has been flogged to death about 19 times). That said, even if the gap between the two sides is larger than published, the outcry isn't very surprising given how it looks. Scarlett Johansson sued Disney over pay structure with Black Widow. Her pay was based on theater revenue. Then the pandemic hit and they did a dual release on Disney plus. They had a legal battle. After that was done she’s producing things for Disney. It’s business. They can separate the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, Tiger337 said: Wasn't there a case several years ago where a player filed for less than the team offered? I don't remember this, but that would be hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 On 1/11/2024 at 7:20 AM, alex said: Interesting on SImanaga, perhaps several teams were scared off with all the 'speculative' amounts that were being thrown around to get him - after the apx YYamamoto deal of 12 years and $325 mil to the LAD. Hindsight is 20/20 but Imanaga at 4 years and $53 mil (or 5 at 80) seems decent enough. I am ok with the JFlaherty deal and we have a little bit depth (though I would still sign another Depth/reclamation type SP). My point is maybe we felt there was not a chance to get Imanaga (to sign with Detroit) and/or the speculative price was going to be too high (yet came in decent) so the Tigers acted on plan B/C. I do not blame them at all, and see the end result as decent enough. We will see who is left standing for the FA musical chairs (pitchers and position players) and maybe an 'opportunistic' chance will show itself as we go deeper into the off season as ST gets closer and closer. I really do think that once we start winning, we'll get decent free agents interested in coming to Detroit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 13 hours ago, CMRivdogs said: Quibling over $25K I get it. What's Mize done for us besides cash an $8 million draft bonus check and pitch one year of average-ish ball? If he performs this year to even 85% of his draft day expectations, he'll get plenty good and paid in 2025. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 3 hours ago, oblong said: just to play devil's advocate..... why is it always incumbent on the org to show loyalty to the player by giving in? He didn't play for almost 2 years. He got paid to rehab. Yes, it's contractual that he gets paid but these proposals are very close so I don't see the logic in blaming one side for not caving. It's business. It'll be forogtten in 6 months. You misspelled both "one" and "month". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 3 hours ago, oblong said: and it's only $25 for Mize too. I think people over react to these things. I doubt Mize batted an eye over it. They won't go to arbitration. I think you might be right. They might land on 827.5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 3 hours ago, RatkoVarda said: Lowballing Candy by 2M and Chafin by 1M, is how Harris ended up with jack s*** at 3b and Shreve in the BP until they released him. And now trying to "save" a rounding error in an attempt to prove some stupid point to someone. I have a feeling letting Candelario go was not a Harris decision. I'm guessing Chafin was a Harris decision, though, and the relationship between the two was so ruined by it that Chafin came right back for less money and couldn't have been happier about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 3 hours ago, Edman85 said: A lot of hyperbole in here this morning... It does strike me as penny wise, pound foolish though, but there's no tangible evidence out there that going to arbitration has any effect on performance or relations with a player going forward. I just wonder if preparing for and attending the hearing comes close to exceeding the salary gap. It's also possible Mize's camp was pushing for a higher number during negotiations, or the negotiated contract was a deal with some kind of incentive structure, and then filed with a much lower number than he was asking for originally. We'll know for sure you're right on if the Tigers end up signing Mize to the 840 so they can both avoid the process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Just now, chasfh said: We'll know for sure you're right on if the Tigers end up signing Mize to the 840 so they can both avoid the process. I know for sure after somebody credible got in my ear to confirm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 2 minutes ago, Edman85 said: I know for sure after somebody credible got in my ear to confirm. The rest of us will know for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 14 minutes ago, chasfh said: I have a feeling letting Candelario go was not a Harris decision. I'm guessing Chafin was a Harris decision, though, and the relationship between the two was so ruined by it that Chafin came right back for less money and couldn't have been happier about it. Chafin opted out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 2 minutes ago, casimir said: Chafin opted out. Important to remember this. It was his choice to originally leave. And to come back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasfh Posted January 12 Author Share Posted January 12 14 minutes ago, casimir said: Chafin opted out. And then when the market didn't pan out the way Chafin wanted, he came back to the Tigers looking for a deal after all Harris told him, yeah, man, we won't pay you the second-year money, we'll offer you this instead, if you don't want it then we're good, thanks for checking in and godspeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 23 minutes ago, casimir said: Chafin opted out. THIS And he wasn't that good last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Just now, chasfh said: And then when the market didn't pan out the way Chafin wanted, he came back to the Tigers looking for a deal after all Harris told him, yeah, man, we won't pay you the second-year money, we'll offer you this instead, if you don't want it then we're good, thanks for checking in and godspeed. You trying to hit your sales quota? 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Just now, casimir said: You trying to hit your sales quota? 😁 He came back to the Tigers asking for money, but the Diamondbacks beat their offer. He went on to have an ERA in the high 4's and a negative win probability added. Harris was right to not give a blank check. I don't see why this is a demerit. At all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtutiger Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) 1 hour ago, Edman85 said: He came back to the Tigers asking for money, but the Diamondbacks beat their offer. He went on to have an ERA in the high 4's and a negative win probability added. Harris was right to not give a blank check. I don't see why this is a demerit. At all. Also, despite the mention earlier in the thread of Chasen Shreve, Chafin leaving also led to Tyler Holton... like, do we know that Holton is even a significant member of last year's team (or even claimed) if Chafin is still in the picture? The Candelario thing, we've flogged it numerous times, but I get the frustration there even if I think it's more explainable than others do. Given what transpired last season, both with the Tigers and with Chafin, I cannot quite understand why people are *still* pointing to that as a demerit to the team / front office. It's wild to me. Edited January 12 by mtutiger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 Another thing about Chafin is he is a reliever. Relievers don't usually have long shelf lives, so teams build bullpens year to year. There is no sense getting upset about the loss of a non-dominant 32 year-old reliever. Candelario...They should have kept! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveMaroth Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 4 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Another thing about Chafin is he is a reliever. Relievers don't usually have long shelf lives, so teams build bullpens year to year. There is no sense getting upset about the loss of a non-dominant 32 year-old reliever. Candelario...They should have kept! I am just surprised this board has spent such little time discussing the Candelario situation. /s 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 17 minutes ago, Tiger337 said: Another thing about Chafin is he is a reliever. Relievers don't usually have long shelf lives, so teams build bullpens year to year. There is no sense getting upset about the loss of a non-dominant 32 year-old reliever. Candelario...They should have kept! Do you wish Detroit had signed Candelario to the 4yr/60 million the Reds did ? Or did you just want him for 2023 at the 7 mil ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 6 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said: Do you wish Detroit had signed Candelario to the 4yr/60 million the Reds did ? Or did you just want him for 2023 at the 7 mil ? I wanted him on the team last year. Not sure if I wanted him for four years starting at age 30. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 6 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said: Do you wish Detroit had signed Candelario to the 4yr/60 million the Reds did ? Or did you just want him for 2023 at the 7 mil ? I know for myself going back to last offseason, I could see both sides of the argument for and against Candelario. I slightly preferred bringing him back, but I understand why the did what they did, and so I slept just fine after they let him loose. He's had a bit of a volatile career, so while I didn't think he'd repeat his 2022, I didn't expect his 2023. I thought slightly above average was likely, somewhere around 110 OPS+ for a quick number. As for the deal with the Reds, again, volatile career. I'd probably have ponied up a 2 year with a vesting 3rd, maybe load up some incentives for him. I'm not sure I'm as optimistic as most with Jung as most around here, certainly not for 2024. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 (edited) Here's a question. Do we think the Tigers have this lined up for 3B this season? Yes? OK, I don't believe you, but its just opinion. No? OK. How much would this type of season be worth it to bring him back? 4/60? And I get its just a projection and we're talking about a Jeckyll & Hyde hitter, but its snowing and there's not much other Tiger news right now. Edited January 12 by casimir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveMaroth Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 minute ago, Edman85 said: Just need to find my stick... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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