chasfh Posted January 30 Author Share Posted January 30 9 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: Clearly they believe Keith is a can't miss. So the position questions hinge around Jung/3B and Meadows. Can Meadows hit, can Jung get to the majors fast, and if not can Vierling play above replacement 3B? Beyond those questions ST will be about starters 4 & 5, Lange, and the last spots in the pen. A less wide open ST than in recent seasons. So I hope we see a lot more playing time by the players who are actually going to be playing so they will be ready and fewer ABs for minor league players who may be interesting but are of only future interest than the last couple of STs. That’s the way it looks on January 30, anyway, although if there’s one thing that Harris is teaching us, it’s that the Tigers are now capable of zagging after years of predictably zigging. The third base picture might look very different come March. Or not. BTW, I don’t think JHM in left field is entirely out of the question, regardless of the Akil Baddoo signing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Fill me in on where all these guys rate defensively.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 18 minutes ago, oblong said: Fill me in on where all these guys rate defensively.... https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects/the-board/2024-prospect-list/scouting-position?org=det&sortcol=12&sortdir=desc&sorttimeframe=FV Meadows 50 present/50 future Jung 30 present/40 future Malloy 30 present/35 future Keith 30 present/30 future One person's opinion, and I'd recommend reading up on the rationale and rubric before jumping to any conclusions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 2 hours ago, casimir said: I think I agree with you about the position players. They're still young enough that they need camp to develop and refine skills rather than in years way past where we've seen veterans need spring to knock off the rust or more recently just playing a bunch of guys to see who might be able to stick. 3B and a couple of bench roles are probably what's up for grabs. The one thing that seems lacking to me is a RHH CF if Vierling is counted on at 3B. Or are we looking at Ibanez at 3B vs LHP and Vierling in CF? As for the pitching, I think there are spots that are definitely claimed, but still some others that are up for grabs. Lange is a good example and I think there's reasonable doubt about him. Additionally, I think there are questions about how to cover 1,400 innings with 13 daily active roster spots. How to keep those arms at the MLB healthy as much as possible and also the reserves in Toledo ready to fill in when needed. Mize will be a high interest story, but not so much a critical one as they have a lot of candidates to fill his spot if he falters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cowan Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Malloy gets on base, he's got a chance to find a spot. I read something a couple of days ago written by someone who didn't like his arm, which isn't a fatal flaw in LF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 26 minutes ago, Edman85 said: https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects/the-board/2024-prospect-list/scouting-position?org=det&sortcol=12&sortdir=desc&sorttimeframe=FV Meadows 50 present/50 future Jung 30 present/40 future Malloy 30 present/35 future Keith 30 present/30 future One person's opinion, and I'd recommend reading up on the rationale and rubric before jumping to any conclusions. Projected 70's for Clark's contact and Keith's power. Do I have to question his conclusions? 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenacious D Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Because everyone asked, here is the lineup on August 1, 2024: DH Canha 2B Keith LF Greene 1B Tork RF Carpenter SS Baez 3B Jung C Rogers CF Meadows 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Twins continuing to take themselves out of contention, move Jorge Polanco for a prospect and a questionable older pitcher. The division is there for the Tigers to seize https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/39418695/sources-twins-sending-2b-jorge-polanco-mariners Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 8 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: Twins continuing to take themselves out of contention, move Jorge Polanco for a prospect and a questionable older pitcher. The division is there for the Tigers to seize https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/39418695/sources-twins-sending-2b-jorge-polanco-mariners That's one way to view it, but I doubt their projections declined if at all. This clears a logjam with Julien and Lewis, and Brooks Lee is knocking on the door. They traded from a strength. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Edman85 said: That's one way to view it, but I doubt their projections declined if at all. This clears a logjam with Julien and Lewis, and Brooks Lee is knocking on the door. They traded from a strength. True, but I was looking at it more from the angle that they moved a fairly valuable asset without doing anything to help the holes left in their rotation. DeSclafani is rather a long shot to do much. Edited January 30 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermojo Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 11 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: True, but I was looking at it more from the angle that they moved a fairly valuable asset without doing anything to help the holes left in their rotation. DeSclafani is rather a long shot to do much. Seattle paid some of his salary and Minnesota said they will reinvest that money into the roster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 1 hour ago, Edman85 said: https://www.fangraphs.com/prospects/the-board/2024-prospect-list/scouting-position?org=det&sortcol=12&sortdir=desc&sorttimeframe=FV Meadows 50 present/50 future Jung 30 present/40 future Malloy 30 present/35 future Keith 30 present/30 future One person's opinion, and I'd recommend reading up on the rationale and rubric before jumping to any conclusions. So one player with solid defense and questionable offense and three just the opposite. I remain concerned about the team defense and its effect on the pitching staff. If Baez declines defensively and Tork does not improve we might have the poorest infield defense in the division and if Keith can't turn the double play it might be ugly. The Guardians will pitch and catch and that plays every game which is why I think they remain the favorite to me as of today. Hopefully our defenders improve with the glove and Meadows hits enough to stick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edman85 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 15 minutes ago, SoCalTiger said: So one player with solid defense and questionable offense and three just the opposite. I remain concerned about the team defense and its effect on the pitching staff. If Baez declines defensively and Tork does not improve we might have the poorest infield defense in the division and if Keith can't turn the double play it might be ugly. The Guardians will pitch and catch and that plays every game which is why I think they remain the favorite to me as of today. Hopefully our defenders improve with the glove and Meadows hits enough to stick. Did you read up on the rationale and rubric/methodology before jumping to those conclusions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger337 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Edman85 said: Did you read up on the rationale and rubric/methodology before jumping to those conclusions? What are your conclusions based on everything you know about these players? I am pretty sure Malloy is a poor defender because I have read nothing to the contrary. I am confident that Meadows is a good defender. I am less sure about Jung and Keith as I have seen mixed reviews, but it seems they are not going to make it based on their defensive skills. When I see mixed reviews of minor leaguers, I get concerned because succeeeding in MLB is really hard and the difference between defensive skiils of major and minor leaguers is large. Edited January 30 by Tiger337 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Edman85 said: Did you read up on the rationale and rubric/methodology before jumping to those conclusions? Interesting that in his fangraphs story on the signing, Szymborski talks about Keith being stiff/too bulked up for IF while in the Freep the story highlights that his training emphasis has shifted to flexibility/range of motion. from the freep: Quote The emphasis in sessions with Ellis, who has more than 70,000 followers on Instagram and is known as a movement specialist, has been placed on injury prevention for his entire body, with a focus on mobility, flexibility and range of motion. As they say, the proof will be in the pudding - maybe in this case the put-outs. Edited January 30 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 2 hours ago, Tenacious D said: Because everyone asked, here is the lineup on August 1, 2024: Nope, postponed due to rain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 From the stuff I read and the vids I have seen I feel fairly confident that Jung will be atleast steady at 2b. By that I mean he will make the plays he's supposed to and not embarrass us there. Keith Im not as confident in but I feel like he can be a similar type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gehringer_2 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) 22 minutes ago, RandyMarsh said: From the stuff I read and the vids I have seen I feel fairly confident that Jung will be atleast steady at 2b. By that I mean he will make the plays he's supposed to and not embarrass us there. Keith Im not as confident in but I feel like he can be a similar type. I think it would take a major move to see Jung at 2B. It would mean something like: -Keith to 1b and Tork traded, -Meadows doesn't make the team making it possible for another LHH (Keith) to move to the OF in his place. (Seems unlikely Hinch would like an all LLH OF on any regular basis.) -Keith is a washout and the Tigers just burned ~$30M Edited January 30 by gehringer_2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 32 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I think it would take a major move to see Jung at 2B. It would mean something like... How about just a minor move? Keith plays a few games at 3B and never lets go. That would mean he has the arm, range and reaction times/glove to handle 3B at least at an adequate level, if not average. Jung shows in Toledo he's more adept at 2B than he is at 3B. There you go... nothing needed but a minor position swap. On the flipside... I think it's Jung who is showing he has the arm, range and reaction times/glove to handle 3B. Whether it's at an adequate, average, or maybe even above average level I have no idea. And Keith showed (I believe) he's better suited to be defensively hidden at 2B than at 3B; and Jung showed he is the better option at 3B. Nothing earth-shattering... But it ends up being no move at all. Just a guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandyMarsh Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 41 minutes ago, gehringer_2 said: I think it would take a major move to see Jung at 2B. It would mean something like: -Keith to 1b and Tork traded, -Meadows doesn't make the team making it possible for another LHH (Keith) to move to the OF in his place. (Seems unlikely Hinch would like an all LLH OF on any regular basis.) -Keith is a washout and the Tigers just burned ~$30M Jung probably wouldn't be called up till atleast July so we'll see how Keith looks at 2nd till then. If he looks like he can handle himself fine there then you may consider using Jung as a trade chip or see how he looks at third base. I noticed that he was playing some innings there in the AFL so maybe that's something the Tigers already have in mind. Worst case scenario you can always mix and match guys, I have found just like with pitching you can never have enough bats and good managers find a way to shoe horn them into the lineup nearly everyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalTiger Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 4 hours ago, Edman85 said: Did you read up on the rationale and rubric/methodology before jumping to those conclusions? No I did not. Guilty. Just going off the rating in your post and articles I have read. For instance I’ve read Keith’s arm is insufficient for third base. Not sure if true. Jung looks like a catcher to me so third seems possible plus his arm is written about as great per his coaches. Stuff like that. But best analysis is on this board for sure. So thanks to everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casimir Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 2 hours ago, gehringer_2 said: I think it would take a major move to see Jung at 2B. It would mean something like: -Keith to 1b and Tork traded, -Meadows doesn't make the team making it possible for another LHH (Keith) to move to the OF in his place. (Seems unlikely Hinch would like an all LLH OF on any regular basis.) -Keith is a washout and the Tigers just burned ~$30M The more I think about it, the more I worry about the Tigers banking too much on Meadows as the primary CF. If his bat still needs work, they could go with Greene and Vierling in CF, sure. But what are the unintended consequences from that? The CF defense suffers, possibly more wear and tear on Greene, 3B becomes a bit more questionable, although that seems to be more quantity than quality of options right now anyway. Can they force Meadows and Malloy to share attributes this spring? How do they get some of Meadows' defense to rub off on Malloy and some of Malloy's offense to rub off on Meadows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) 32 minutes ago, casimir said: The more I think about it, the more I worry about the Tigers banking too much on Meadows as the primary CF. If his bat ... If his bat is a problem, Vierling at least starts against lefties so it's a platoon. Or if it's worse than that then Meadows is a defensive replacement + part-timer against certain RH'ers. I'm not going to stress about 3B even if Vierling gets forced into playing a lot of CF. I think Ibanez + others will hold the fort until Jung is ready for a promotion. Which, btw, if he's ready sometime in June/ July, just for arguments sake... than Vierling STILL gets pushed off 3B anyways so I don't consider this an overriding situation to worry about as much as whether Meadows is a CF answer for us or not. Even if Greene is forced into CF a bit... and I don't know when he's physically ready for that... I think we have multiple OF options at the corners so we'll just see how that plays out. I'm not worried about who's in the OF, outside of Meadows... It's really all on Meadows to prove he's a part of that puzzle... or not. Edited January 30 by 1984Echoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblong Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 So my question earlier was a bit uninformed yet rhetorical based on casual readings not rising to actual studying. My perception is we have a young group with no claim on position. We are sticking them where they cause the least harm. That’s kind of troublesome. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1984Echoes Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 I think we just have to let that play out... Make adjustments at a future point in time when those adjustments reveal themselves as necessary. Until then, my mentality is to: just let it play out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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